Fords PSD vs Dodes Cummins..

[WHITE TRASH1]

electronically controlled? wtf would I have one of those for? :fawkdancesmiley:.

So it's the electronically controlled part you are going to have issue with... :haha: Hell I don't even have an electric lift pump, the only needed electronic part is the fuel shut off solenoid. :redneck:




But damn I've never heard a diesel rig sound as good as mine does, cummins sound good, powerjokes sound like complete **** but a N/A V8 straight piped dizzle sounds pure fawking evil. lumpy at idle but it CRACKS under throttle.

 

[Boomer]

electronically controlled? wtf would I have one of those for? :fawkdancesmiley:.

Hey, our trucks do have a ECMs.

 

[Boomer]

So it's the electronically controlled part you are going to have issue with... :haha: Hell I don't even have an electric lift pump, the only needed electronic part is the fuel shut off solenoid. :redneck:

Looks like Binder isn't the only one who needs to do more homework on the Cummins B series engines.

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

Looks like Binder isn't the only one who needs to do more homework on the Cummins B series engines.

Not at all, I don't know of anyone in this discussion running that old of a dodge that is still stock. I am referring to it being the norm to replace the mechanical pump with an electronic lift pump. Hell even the IDI guys do it but I have no need to start bombing my truck, if I want to haul a heavy load fast I'll just fire up the vulva's 3406E and beat almost all you fawkers up the hill. :redneck:

 

[Boomer]

Not at all, I don't know of anyone in this discussion running that old of a dodge that is still stock. I am referring to it being the norm to replace the mechanical pump with an electronic lift pump. Hell even the IDI guys do it but I have no need to start bombing my truck, if I want to haul a heavy load fast I'll just fire up the vulva's 3406E and beat almost all you fawkers up the hill. :redneck:

From what I have seen, the norm for owners of Dodges with the Cummins B series engines (AKA the "12 valves") is to replace worn out mechanical lift pumps with new mechanical lift pumps. It is the least expensive, easiest, and most reliable route to take. Why mess with a good thing? I'd be surprised if there are any 12v Cummins owners in in this thread who HAVE replaced their mechanical lift pumps with electric ones.

That being said, some people who have really modded their 12v engines and cranked up the power to impractical levels have found the mechanical lift pump isn't able to deliver enough fuel at those levels and have switched over to high volume electric lift pump systems.

The later ISB series engines with the VP44 electronic injection pump (AKA the "24 valves") are the ones that tend to have lift pump issues with subsequent injection pump issues. These are the guys adding aftermarket lift pump systems to help keep their injection pumps alive.

A good old Cummins B series 12 valve is pretty much like your IDI 7.3 in not needing any electronics to run. Heck, even the fuel shutoff solenoid can be operated manually if need be.

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

Must be a local thing to replace the mechanical pump with a set of filters off a semi and a ginormous aeromotive pump mounted in front of the rear wheels then... All the smallpeckered "bombers" around here do that no matter what generation the rig is.



The 24 valve lift pump is a fawking terrible design... Electric pumps like to PUSH not lift so they burn up. So mounting the lift pump directly to the engine on the side of the head is a dumb design. I put a good electronic pump on my dads truck right in front of the tank on the frame and bypassed the stock pos and haven't had any issues since.

 

[Lucky Jeff]

i've been contemplating throwing a FASS On my 12 valve. Only because a friend of mine said the truck will fire off like a 1st gen (meaning it doesn't even need to turn over one revolution before it fires). Mine only takes 2 or so, with the higher timing, but damn that'd be nice. Although I don't know that it's worth the electronic hassles. A friend of mine builds a kit that runs a small pulley/belt system off the crank. But I'm not completely sold with that one either.. Sometimes you just gotta leave well enough alone (which I'm no good at).

 

[skinny_pedal]

Sometimes you just gotta leave well enough alone (which I'm no good at).

In fact you suck at it:fawkdancesmiley:

 

[Lucky Jeff]

In fact you suck at it:fawkdancesmiley:

kiss my ass :fawkdancesmiley:.. You gunna be over Sunday to help me pull this perfectly good motor out of the truck? :haha:

 

[skinny_pedal]

kiss my ass :fawkdancesmiley:.. You gunna be over Sunday to help me pull this perfectly good motor out of the truck? :haha:

Nope Im commited to help Nick get his new housing in on Sunday. Hurray up my truck needs to be driven

 

[Lucky Jeff]

Nope Im commited to help Nick get his new housing in on Sunday. Hurray up my truck needs to be driven

Workin on it! Mike is picking up the new motor tomorrow.

 

[broncoguy]

IDI Sound

White Trash, I agree 100% about the sound of the IDI's being better. Mine sounds sweet between the turbo and the 5" straight pipe.

This thread brings up a lot of good points about all engines mentioned. I was raised and will always be a Ford guy, but I will also be the first to admit that the 6.0 is probably the biggest black eye ever put in a ford product, Period!

There is one claim that always gets brought up that I never agree with. Everyone seems to think that the Cummins is so much cheaper to build power with than any other diesel out there. It just isn't true. Go do some research and I think you will find that the price per hp is going to be really close any way you go.

 

[Lucky Jeff]

White Trash, I agree 100% about the sound of the IDI's being better. Mine sounds sweet between the turbo and the 5" straight pipe.

This thread brings up a lot of good points about all engines mentioned. I was raised and will always be a Ford guy, but I will also be the first to admit that the 6.0 is probably the biggest black eye ever put in a ford product, Period!

There is one claim that always gets brought up that I never agree with. Everyone seems to think that the Cummins is so much cheaper to build power with than any other diesel out there. It just isn't true. Go do some research and I think you will find that the price per hp is going to be really close any way you go.

It is said because it was true. Tell me how you think it wasn't. Excluding the new trucks that only need a programmer to make most people happy.

List the mods it takes to put a Cummins in the 400 hp range. Then list the mods it takes to get a powerstroke there.

 

[broncoguy]

400 Hp

It typically will take, injectors, pump mods and turbo upgrades to get to 400hp.

The only difference is the powerstroke needs a Good custom tune, since they never made a non electronic stroke. That will add around 400 bucks to the stroke total.

There is a lot of variables as you go through the years of either engine, so tryin to list a standard set of mods for either group is pretty much impossible.

I am not on here to start any kind of pissing match, just goin by what I have read and seen.

 

[Lucky Jeff]

It typically will take, injectors, pump mods and turbo upgrades to get to 400hp.

The only difference is the powerstroke needs a Good custom tune, since they never made a non electronic stroke. That will add around 400 bucks to the stroke total.

There is a lot of variables as you go through the years of either engine, so tryin to list a standard set of mods for either group is pretty much impossible.

I am not on here to start any kind of pissing match, just goin by what I have read and seen.

And the prices? 550 bucks for a set of new sticks for the cummins with free pump tweaks and it's over 400. Hell they've hit over 500 on the stock turbo with the 12 valve.

It's not a pissing match. If you state something innacurate, you're going to be called on it. Someone didn't pull that saying out of thin air just for the hell of it.

 

[zuki4x4chick]

Our Superduty has been super reliable. (99' w/7.3 & 6 spd)

Exhaust & Intake, no tuner bla bla.

Love the truck, still would love a D-Max one day, nicer riding.

 

[Alpine4x4]

It typically will take, injectors, pump mods and turbo upgrades to get to 400hp.

The only difference is the powerstroke needs a Good custom tune, since they never made a non electronic stroke. That will add around 400 bucks to the stroke total.

There is a lot of variables as you go through the years of either engine, so tryin to list a standard set of mods for either group is pretty much impossible.

I am not on here to start any kind of pissing match, just goin by what I have read and seen.

What year cummins? Injectors, programmer, lift pump, exhaust, intake, little tuning and I can sit damn near if not over 400. Thats under $2000 easy as well.

How much are 7.3 injectors again?

 

[broncoguy]

400 hp

Injectors for the Powerstroke are expensive, if you buy them done. I can build 240+ cc hybrid injectors for $1500, throw on a good Wildman tune for $350, an intake for $40, and a 5" exhaust for $150. That combo will produce 400 hp numbers and it is still at the $2000 mark also. The same as the cummins above.

 

[Lucky Jeff]

Injectors for the Powerstroke are expensive, if you buy them done. I can build 240+ cc hybrid injectors for $1500, throw on a good Wildman tune for $350, an intake for $40, and a 5" exhaust for $150. That combo will produce 400 hp numbers and it is still at the $2000 mark also. The same as the cummins above.

So you tiptoe around my response? :haha: Like I said, it was said for a reason. Things change over time and products get better and cheaper. I'd love to see you have that same response back in 01. Hell, even just a few years ago. Although you still can't get a 7.3 to 400 for less then 2k.. Just about every other diesel out there, you can. It either takes injectors for a 12 valve. Or a tuner for the 6.0, 5.9CR, 6.7 6.4 and 6.6..

 

[Alpine4x4]

So you tiptoe around my response? :haha: Like I said, it was said for a reason. Things change over time and products get better and cheaper. I'd love to see you have that same response back in 01. Hell, even just a few years ago. Although you still can't get a 7.3 to 400 for less then 2k.. Just about every other diesel out there, you can. It either takes injectors for a 12 valve. Or a tuner for the 6.0, 5.9CR, 6.7 6.4 and 6.6..

I based mine off of what is probably a factual real world number for the programmers. The Quad Adrenaline claims +180hp on the chip with an intake. Add a Fass for $600 and I'm only in $1000. Factor in that my truck is still running at its stock rated HP and I'm at 400hp for $1000. Real world I'd need an Exhaust to help with EGT's and boost the HP numbers a tad. The sticks are just there for overkill:redneck: And that puts it under the costs of JUST the injectors for the PS, built or bought.

Sure I could say I'm hitting 400hp right now on my rig as it sits,(Quad Adrenaline, intake, exhaust, airtex lift pump which is not enough for the quad) in reality I'm probably shy of that.