Gas

Broken Again · Feb 21, 2012

Gas went up 30 cents in one week here.

2008 Flash Back!!!
"Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe,"

"There's no way we can create a better future without the price of [fossil-fuel-based] energy going up,"

http://sec.online.wsj.com/article/SB122904040307499791.html

Maybe it time we reconsider the Keystone pipeline, Anwar, and other potential oil rich areas.

pokey · Feb 21, 2012

There is no shortage of oil that would effect us for the next 500 years. There is however a large profit margin that the oil companies have gotten used to and really enjoy. Every time someone buys a car that gets great mileage then the oil companies profit margin takes a hit. They don't like that and keep raising the price to compensate. :booo: Add to the mix that the eco nuts here can talk the leadership into locking up our own sources so it cant be extracted and a president that need their vote to get re-elected and you have the recipe for ridicules' prices:booo: Add to that problem that the better mileage a car gets then the less gas they buy thus less taxes collected to pay for our roads :booo:

Broken Again · Feb 21, 2012

I think a lot of it has to do with "green" issues. The president wants us all to be driving Chevy Volts that cost $50K* and go 25 miles on an overnight charge.

*with taxpayer subsidies.:booo:

pokey · Feb 21, 2012

Broken Again said:
I think a lot of it has to do with "green" issues. The president wants us all to be driving Chevy Volts that cost $50K* and go 25 miles on an overnight charge.

*with taxpayer subsidies.:booo:

The problem is what about the roads ? How are we going to pay for them ? And what about those of us that have to drive bigger heavy rigs for work. We dont have any options and just have to pass on the cost to the customer who of course dosent like that :booo:

Broken Again · Feb 21, 2012

I agree, the price of everything is headed up.

ZedMikey · Feb 21, 2012

pokey said:
There is no shortage of oil that would effect us for the next 500 years.

Based on data from the CIA World Fact Book, at our current rates of consumption, the world's proven oil reserves will be depleted in 40 years. Would you mind sharing where your 500 year number comes from?

CIA World Fact Book - Proven Reserves
CIA World Fact Book - Oil Consumption

pokey · Feb 21, 2012

ZedMikey said:
Based on data from the CIA World Fact Book, at our current rates of consumption, the world's proven oil reserves will be depleted in 40 years. Would you mind sharing where your 500 year number comes from?

CIA World Fact Book - Proven Reserves
CIA World Fact Book - Oil Consumption

Friends and family that work in the oil extraction industry in the gulf. Believe what you want the ones I listen to make their living there.

ZedMikey · Feb 21, 2012

pokey said:
Friends and family that work in the oil extraction industry in the gulf. Believe what you want the ones I listen to make their living there.

And if you want to know the details of the world auto manufacturing industry, you'll ask your mechanic or car salesman?

Or if you're interested in the state of global agriculture, you'll ask the farmer down the road?

I can cite multiple international sources... here are some more with similar numbers to the CIA World Fact Book. 3 sources cited in that EIA chart (including BP). Older data, but lower than the CIA's newer numbers, anyway.

http://www.eia.gov/international/reserves.html

Even OPEC's numbers are in line...

http://www.opec.org/opec_web/en/data_graphs/330.htm

If you think your friends and family are more reliable than published (and concordant) numbers from OPEC, World Oil, Oil and Gas Journal, BP, and the CIA... well... yeah. Whatever.

Horus · Feb 21, 2012

Free market capitalism baby. If you have something it's your right to charge whatever people are willing to pay for it. If we want to play big bully tough guy with Iran we're going to have to pay for it.

North Korea is building a nuclear weapon and are threat to us. Pakistan is building a nuclear weapon and we've been pissing them off wih our drones for years now. Iran is not building a nuclear weapon. It does not need to, it has oil.

The crippling sanctions we placed on them have nothing to do with nukes and everything to do with Iran's abandonment of the petrodollar. I knew we were headed for $6.00 gas when they announced last year that they would sell China and Russia oil with their currencies and NOT with our dollar. I knew then what was coming.

Then again I don't have cable and spend roughly two hours a day reading this crap. Nor still do I allow any political or social bias to in any way sway my analysis of the most likely future.

Who here has children within four or five years of Draft age? Way better question.
:corn:

kev1 · Feb 21, 2012

Iran not building a nuke ha ha thats funny.

Clark · Feb 21, 2012

I totally agree, it's got everything to do with the dollar, it's like a drug we make, and need to keep everyone addicted to, if economies stop using it we will collapse. They will do anything to keep the dollar supreme in international trade, at all costs.:booo:

pokey · Feb 21, 2012

ZedMikey said:
And if you want to know the details of the world auto manufacturing industry, you'll ask your mechanic or car salesman?

Or if you're interested in the state of global agriculture, you'll ask the farmer down the road?

I can cite multiple international sources... here are some more with similar numbers to the CIA World Fact Book. 3 sources cited in that EIA chart (including BP). Older data, but lower than the CIA's newer numbers, anyway.

http://www.eia.gov/international/reserves.html

Even OPEC's numbers are in line...

http://www.opec.org/opec_web/en/data_graphs/330.htm

If you think your friends and family are more reliable than published (and concordant) numbers from OPEC, World Oil, Oil and Gas Journal, BP, and the CIA... well... yeah. Whatever.

Think about this for a while before responding. Whos best intrest is it to make people think were running out of oil. Maybe those who stand to profit from higher prices :eeek:

Glenn · Feb 21, 2012

pokey said:
There is no shortage of oil that would effect us for the next 500 years. There is however a large profit margin that the oil companies have gotten used to and really enjoy. Every time someone buys a car that gets great mileage then the oil companies profit margin takes a hit. They don't like that and keep raising the price to compensate. :booo: Add to the mix that the eco nuts here can talk the leadership into locking up our own sources so it cant be extracted and a president that need their vote to get re-elected and you have the recipe for ridicules' prices:booo: Add to that problem that the better mileage a car gets then the less gas they buy thus less taxes collected to pay for our roads :booo:

Disagree. So many more new cars are being sold than before. Despita the increasing economy of the average car on the road, fossil fuel consumption is not decreasing.

ZedMikey · Feb 21, 2012

pokey said:
Think about this for a while before responding. Whos best intrest is it to make people think were running out of oil. Maybe those who stand to profit from higher prices :eeek:

So, you're saying:

1. The CIA stands to profit from higher oil prices.

2. Decreasing demand for oil from increasingly fuel efficient vehicles is driving oil prices up.

3. Driving the cost of oil up to where alternative fuels become more economically feasible is in the best interest of oil companies.

4. OPEC keeps increasing the numbers for their known oil reserves in an effort to convince us that they are running out of oil.

Did I miss any of your main points there?

Horus · Feb 21, 2012

kev1 said:
Iran not building a nuke ha ha thats funny.

All the same individuals who swore Saddam was building and hiding Weapons of Mass Destruction are those who point their fingers at Iran now. How'd that work out last time? I'm just sayin dude. It worked before, it'll work again.

Some dedicate a small amount if time each day to finding the truth in all of this, or at least get closest to it. Preventative maintenance really, much like brushing your teeth. The rest of the herd will be led by their televisions to the slaughter.

:beer:

crash2 · Feb 21, 2012

I don't care who is doing what to who or whom.

All I can say as a person who has a family to support with everything else growing and my income not--having fuel prices rise hurts folks like myself.

Doing an honest days work is loosing what it meant years ago...

pokey · Feb 21, 2012

ZedMikey said:
So, you're saying:

1. The CIA stands to profit from higher oil prices. your kidding right :haha: What does the CIA care about the price of fuel anyway. Yea believe them they always have your best intrest at heart.:haha:

2. Decreasing demand for oil from increasingly fuel efficient vehicles is driving oil prices up.Yep

3. Driving the cost of oil up to where alternative fuels become more economically feasible is in the best interest of oil companies. Again your kidding right. How old are you anyway. We have been hearing about these other sources for decades and were just now getting cars that show some promise (if you can afford them) and yet no solutions to the other problems they create.

4. OPEC keeps increasing the numbers for their known oil reserves in an effort to convince us that they are running out of oil. Most of this planets oil reserves have not even begun to be tapped. were just using up the easiests ones first.
Did I miss any of your main points there?

why no you didnt.

ZedMikey · Feb 21, 2012

pokey said:
why no you didnt.

1. You completely missed my point.

2. Would you please explain exactly how it is higher fuel efficiency in cars that is increasing the price of oil considering the fact that total demand is still increasing?

3. Even inflation-adjusted, gasoline prices are about as high as they've ever been, and technology (especially battery tech) is finally catching up to the cost of gasoline. How is this in the best interests of the oil companies again?

4. Again, you missed my point. If "big oil" wants us to believe they are running out of oil, why have they been INCREASING published numbers for proven oil reserves? Beside that point, shouldn't they want to convince us that they have plenty of oil to spare, so that we don't try to find a better product to replace theirs?

WA-Wheeler · Feb 21, 2012

Its now about how much oil is left, its about how much people depend on it. Even if consumption starts to decrease per person there is still the rise of population to consider as well as technology still in place that relies on fossil-fuels.

The more we use it, the higher the price will go. The less we use, the higher the price will go. Its a double edge sword.

pokey · Feb 21, 2012

WA-Wheeler said:
Its now about how much oil is left, its about how much people depend on it. Even if consumption starts to decrease per person there is still the rise of population to consider as well as technology still in place that relies on fossil-fuels.

The more we use it, the higher the price will go. The less we use, the higher the price will go. Its a double edge sword.

Bingo :cheer::cheer::cheer:

crash2 · Feb 21, 2012

WA-Wheeler said:
Its now about how much oil is left, its about how much people depend on it. Even if consumption starts to decrease per person there is still the rise of population to consider as well as technology still in place that relies on fossil-fuels.

The more we use it, the higher the price will go. The less we use, the higher the price will go. Its a double edge sword.

In this global market china is doing a good job of driving prices up....

RusM · Feb 21, 2012

ZedMikey said:
Based on data from the CIA World Fact Book, at our current rates of consumption, the world's proven oil reserves will be depleted in 40 years. Would you mind sharing where your 500 year number comes from?

CIA World Fact Book - Proven Reserves
CIA World Fact Book - Oil Consumption

Seems odd to me that there are only 40 years of reserves left in the world, but the oil fields in North Dakota are projected 30-100 years? :eeek:

ZedMikey · Feb 21, 2012

RusM said:
Seems odd to me that there are only 40 years of reserves left in the world, but the oil fields in North Dakota are projected 30-100 years? :eeek:

Proven oil reserves is a fluctuating number. It's based upon (among other things) the price of oil and the cost of retrieving oil from a given place. As the cost of oil goes up, more oil becomes profitable to extract, and that oil becomes new "proven reserves." Think tar sands and the like. Proven reserves are basically the known deposits of oil that are worth extracting and selling for the current price of oil.

We won't run out of oil in 40 years. But the oil that currently exists as proven reserves will be gone in 40 years of current rates of consumption. Consumption rates are rising, but so are proven reserves. We'll see which one slows first...

WA-Wheeler · Feb 21, 2012

crash said:
In this global market china is doing a good job of driving prices up....

China is a problem, on many fronts. Economically, politically, and environmentally. The way I see it though the immense growth rate of China and its industrial boom are nothing more then a bubble. I'm curious to see what will happen when it pops.

Gas prices are so intertwined with our global economy that predicting their price patterns is almost near impossible. But, as history has shown the price nowadays is centered around the middle east. Such as it is..... who knows what the future holds.

RusM · Feb 21, 2012

WA-Wheeler said:
China is a problem, on many fronts. Economically, politically, and environmentally. The way I see it though the immense growth rate of China and its industrial boom are nothing more then a bubble. I'm curious to see what will happen when it pops.

Western Chinese revolution on the richer more liberal Eastern Chinese, plunging them back into the middle ages for a few years.

whatthe? · Feb 22, 2012

Ah, oil, money and politics. So much richer than global warming, money and politics. Uninfluenced and uncorrupted science, I love it.

ChevyGuy · Feb 22, 2012

Did anyone else fill up at a safeway gas station today? I think somethings wrong with it......:eeek:

boardbysled · Feb 22, 2012

12 cent rise here since yesterday.:mad:

boxboy · Feb 22, 2012

ZedMikey said:
Based on data from the CIA World Fact Book, at our current rates of consumption, the world's proven oil reserves will be depleted in 40 years. Would you mind sharing where your 500 year number comes from?

CIA World Fact Book - Proven Reserves
CIA World Fact Book - Oil Consumption

Well those numbers are just what is recoverable oil at the time the estimates were given based on the technology of the day to recover the oil and some of the numbers are politically planted. I thought i read some place we are only able to recover like 10% to 20% of an unproven oil reserve due to the technology of the day but oil companies are working hard to find ways to recover the other 80% to 90%... i think the US number is way under what it should be but of course that is the proven reserves and not the unproven undeveloped reserves the US is sitting on waiting for everyone else to run out first.

ZedMikey · Feb 22, 2012

boxboy said:
Well those numbers are just what is recoverable oil at the time the estimates were given based on the technology of the day to recover the oil and some of the numbers are politically planted. I thought i read some place we are only able to recover like 10% to 20% of an unproven oil reserve due to the technology of the day but oil companies are working hard to find ways to recover the other 80% to 90%... i think the US number is way under what it should be but of course that is the proven reserves and not the unproven undeveloped reserves the US is sitting on waiting for everyone else to run out first.

I'm aware what the numbers are, and I know we won't run out of oil in 40 years. I'm just trying to figure out were pokey got "There is no shortage of oil that would effect us for the next 500 years." That's not even running out of oil in 500 years...that's not being impacted by a shortage of oil for at least 500 years. That's a bold claim that he still hasn't backed up with anything more than "that's why my buddy said."