Heims vs tie rod ends?

Phantom 309 · Sep 10, 2008

Anyone have any thoughts on using heims as tie rod/drag link ends? Besides using ones that are stong enough and the wear issue, are there any other reasons not to use them? I use them on my trail jeep and it stears great and I haven't had any problems, but I'm thinking of using them on a street driven truck. I have a 87' Chevy pavement pounder that I started when I was in high school that I pulled out of storage to finally finish. It's kind of a "show n go" type truck and was thinking of making the tie rod and draglink (crossover) out of 1" stainless rod and hiems. The tires are 39"x15". Is this a bad idea? Any info on the safety of this would be appreciated. Thanks.

WHITE TRASH1 · Sep 10, 2008

I wouldn't worry about it... Use good quality heims and safety washers and it'll be fine.

CHOP SHOP · Sep 10, 2008

squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek, sqwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaak.

how do you keep grease in them? maybe take your hubs off and expose more bearings. drive with no air cleaner too.:awesomework:

WHITE TRASH1 · Sep 10, 2008

I'm running CroMo teflon lined heims and I have no squeek or clanking.... My old steering had teflon lined heims and the truck was my dd then. Never heard a squeek in 3 years of street and trail driving.... Use cheap tractor heims and it'll drive ya nuts with all the noises..

Damnyankee · Sep 10, 2008

Drill them and put the copper grease for you CTM's in them.. no squeak, and stays in there for a VERY long time.

CHOP SHOP · Sep 10, 2008

Ive heard good ones make noise also. why not putem on your big rig?
its a spherical bearing exposed to the elements in washington.

whats wrong with gm tierods? every histeer kit mfger uses them.

you can still make a nice stainless rods and use the chev ends just fine and be able to grease them.

just watched Bob Long pull nice expensive heims out of his (retired v8d60 comp rig). last time I seen it on the wood pile it went "squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek". next time I was there he was replacing them, the old ones clicked with no load on them. the new ones are nice, for awile.:booo:

ever follow buggies? heard it lots, sounds real great.

TigTorch · Sep 10, 2008

Heim joints:
Available in standard engineering sizes
Have higher range of motion
Are easy to inspect for wear
Typically lighter.

Tie rod ends:
Have much longer life span; sealed and often greasable.
Can be dificult to find the right size/fit for custom work
Much less likely to seperate when excessively worn.
Typically can take more overloading (crash damage/impact) without coming apart.

You'll be OK with heims on your street rig if:
1) Get under your truck once a month and inspect them.
2) Put a safety washer on the back side of the joint so it can't fall apart.

Damnyankee · Sep 10, 2008

My reason for Heim joints, is simple.. how many tie rods have you spent 20 min trying to get out, cause they are siezed in the tapered hole?
I can change a heim in 10 min and no special tool / pickle fork needed.

Phantom 309 · Sep 10, 2008

Ok, I can't believe that I have to ask this but I'd rather look stupid and do this right than have it fall apart...What a "safety" washer?

CHOP SHOP · Sep 10, 2008

Damnyankee said:
My reason for Heim joints, is simple.. how many tie rods have you spent 20 min trying to get out, cause they are siezed in the tapered hole?
I can change a heim in 10 min and no special tool / pickle fork needed.

if you are using a pickle fork, you have no clue. :booo:

CHOP SHOP · Sep 10, 2008

PHANTOM 309 said:
Ok, I can't believe that I have to ask this but I'd rather look stupid and do this right than have it fall apart...What a "safety" washer?

its a washer that is bigger than the heim, so when it falls apart at 80mph on 40s, it doesnt fall off all the way.:awesomework: great setup!

how come there are no safety devices for a tierod? easy answer.

Damnyankee · Sep 10, 2008

CHOP SHOP said:
if you are using a pickle fork, you have no clue. :booo:

Oh really.. I suppose you just hit the side of the steering arm where the TRE attaches and the shock load will make it come loose, and then hit the top of it or vise versa. Ya, that works sometimes, but not EVERY time.

I've done plenty of TRE's without a picklefork. but sometimes.......

I'm just trying to help the guy make a decision.

CHOP SHOP · Sep 10, 2008

Damnyankee said:
Oh really.. I suppose you just hit the side of the steering arm where the TRE attaches and the shock load will make it come loose, and then hit the top of it or vise versa. Ya, that works sometimes, but not EVERY time.

I've done plenty of TRE's without a picklefork. but sometimes.......

I'm just trying to help the guy make a decision.

never hit the tierod itself. if its stubborn have another person lift or push on it with a lever while striking the tapered part.

pickle forks are for removing junk ends never to be run again. it prys on them ruining them sometimes and ****ing the grease boot aswell.

hes already made a decision to run heims, just exploring others veiws is all.:beer:

CHOP SHOP · Sep 10, 2008

hell a pickfork is about the same as jacking up the truck by the tierod till it falls off.:cheer:

Damnyankee · Sep 10, 2008

Chop shop, what do you mean WHEN they come apart. I've never had 1 come apart. Thats why we do maintenance.

TRE's are NO stronger than a Heim joint. You will never find a load rating on a TRE, therefore you don't know how strong it really is. and its a swaged ball design with a spring in it. Why would it be any stronger than a swaged ball type Heim joint?

Damnyankee · Sep 10, 2008

CHOP SHOP said:
hell a pickfork is about the same as jacking up the truck by the tierod till it falls off.:cheer:

I've done this, but with the jack under the TRE (end of it) on some rigs, where it comes in from teh top.:beer:

CHOP SHOP · Sep 10, 2008

Damnyankee said:
Chop shop, what do you mean WHEN they come apart. I've never had 1 come apart. Thats why we do maintenance.

TRE's are NO stronger than a Heim joint. You will never find a load rating on a TRE, therefore you don't know how strong it really is. and its a swaged ball design with a spring in it. Why would it be any stronger than a swaged ball type Heim joint?

this reminds me of arguing with my pops about "kingpins VS balljoints".

and yes I have poped two heims so far. they were good ones 3/4 on a toyota rear link. cost me a shock each time.

I am not dissing on the heims strenght, just the fact that is an exposed bearing in washington. I dont do maintanence much at all, I usually dont tighten bolts till they fall off, I dont grease untill it squeeks. so I prefer TREs.

high maintanence is not for me:redneck:

Damnyankee · Sep 10, 2008

CHOP SHOP said:
this reminds me of arguing with my pops about "kingpins VS balljoints".

word. apples and oranges.

TRE's WILL last longer as they are generally servicable.

bigiron · Sep 10, 2008

I would check rcw codes..Not sure if a heim is street legal....I know I have broken 2 on my offroad truck.... Both blew the thin part of the heim out across from the threaded end there is no way a capture washer would help either failure... I would not run them on the street.:eeek:

Phantom 309 · Sep 10, 2008

I know that they're illegal but so is crossover steering on this truck for that matter. I believe it (rcw) states that the original steering cannot be modified.

Generally whats the strongest way to go with heims: turn the rod down at the ends and use a female joint or drill and tap the rod and use a male joint? In the past I've used male joints but on this one I kind of wanted to use female if I'm not sacrificing strength.

I may still go the rout with TRE's but am leaning pretty heavy toward heims. Thanks for all of the info.