Liberty Trail Closures Meeting 3/26/2016

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But how is that different than your job or my job?

We don't **** on other people's lives with our work. You and I hold the esteem of being able to provide for ourselves without trampling the rights and liberties of others.

There are no slaves in America. We are all free to choose how we make a living. If someone chooses to make their living taking from others they should be held accountable by society for that choice.

Tweekers provide for themselves by stealing the contents of your home while you're at work or ripping the copper wire out of your walls. Are they not just folks just trying to provide for themselves and pay their bills too? What do we collectively think of them?
 
We don't **** on other people's lives with our work. You and I hold the esteem of being able to provide for ourselves without trampling the rights and liberties of others.

There are no slaves in America. We are all free to choose how we make a living. If someone chooses to make their living taking from others they should be held accountable by society for that choice.

Tweekers provide for themselves by stealing the contents of your home while you're at work or ripping the copper wire out of your walls. Are they not just folks just trying to provide for themselves and pay their bills too? What do we collectively think of them?

They (tweekers) are not trying to provide anything except the means to get their next fix...They aren't providing anything, they are not paying bills with their thievery, well....one...to their supplier...
 
Here's the map of what they plan to "decommission." I've talked to a couple of people that attended the earlier meetings but what they had to say just raised more questions than answers for me.


post-2-0-26191800-1457655394.jpg
 
Could these roads be converted to trails and let degrade to a trail standard and not a FS road standard?
 
Anybody going to Thursday night's meeting? 5-7pm in Cle Elum

We are hoping Liberty fire hall will be packed on Saturday. I live close by..it's small...

Hope to see you all there...we've fended off several road closures in our Valley in the past. Hopefully we can join forces and keep this proposal from being enacted.

They are reaching for reasons to close it besides money...they are pushing endangered species which makes it extremely hard for us (citizens ) to counter. Grizzly bears, steal head, and spotted owls. They've lined up three species saying this is their natural habitat quoting sources that they were bountiful a hundred years ago and want to restore these species in this area...

We need educated responses and counter proposals like reducing road status to trail status... proving that silt from the trails won't affect steal-head, I have proof that humans and grizzlies get along and no roads in Wyoming or CO have ever been closed for Grizz habitat...and they have the most Grizzlies in the lower 48. Spotted owl habitat is a joke and it's a proven joke that they don't need old growth forest or isolation from people...

Just discussed this with a NW4WD officer and USFS employee. The proposal is to somehow fix the BillyGoat road/trail and then close 20+ miles of nothing but spur roads with the longest being .7miles long.

more later...hope you can be there
 
Keep on it 74nvrstuk!!! Thank you for the update after chatting with your source/contact...
 
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New member here but this thread really caught my attention. I recently became aware of this FS closure activity through meetings with Mt Baker FS people on the 410 corridor roads. They are looking at permanently closing access to over half the roads over here. This is not limited to a single area and not a single NF. It's affecting road closure in the whole state and probably going on in many states with Federal land.

This is a MASSIVE land grab and is a systematic process to limit access to large tracts of land owned by citizens. When there was large scale logging operations going on, many of these roads were built with taxpayer funds although the claim then was that the timber companies were footing the bill. Organizations like the Sierra Club blew the lid off of that story years ago. Taxpayers paid dearly for those roads to be built and now we are being told they have to be shut down, again, at great expense to the taxpayers.

Reading some of the rationalization put out by the FS is enough to drive anyone crazy. It's thinly veiled to be for "wildlife habitat" with a smattering of "budget constraints" thrown in. Any feedback will only be considered if it relates to those criteria. In other words, just wanting to access the roads for recreation is not a valid reason.

For the average weekend warrior, fighting this is extremely difficult. We are up against bureaucrats who have nothing to do all day but put together plans to limit access for the people who pay their wages. Fortunately, for once in my life, I'm retired and I do have time to devote to a cause that is close to me. I've spent a lifetime enjoying the access to public land and raised my kids and now grand kids to enjoy it as well. I won't be sitting back and just accepting this without a fight. I volunteer a lot of time working on trail repair and will gladly take on a bigger challenge to add to my new "job".

It's going to take a lot of work to take this on and we have got to act fast and get involved. This is a BIG FREAKING DEAL folks and once this land is gone, it will most likely never be back in our lifetime.

Act NOW!
 
Main thought i took from today's meeting in Cle Elum was IF this goes through relocating and reestablishing trails WILL be part of the project.

BUT the time frame for this work is entirely dependent on the contractors pace and time frame throughout the project. The contractor has UP TO 5 YEARS with an option of an extension to complete their work, at their own pace.... throughout this time, specific trails will be closed until completion of work. Once again, up to and possibly extending past 5 years.


The major portions considering to be relocated are evolved trails that are not originally part of the ORIGINAL established trail.... that said there're still portions of 4w332 and 339 that are parts of the ORIGINAL trail that are also going to be decommissioned

Personally, we need to retain everything we can. The allotted contractor time frame is what errks me about the whole thing.
 
x2 what builtnotbot and netcoyote said...

It's not a big road closure they are trying to put thru "here" anyway. But, every road that's closed adds up... I've been in K-Valley long enough to watch almost all of our wheeling roads closed in the winter and many others are permenant.

Here's what I got from tonight...
I went to the mtg tonight in Cle Elum.

It's an open house format where you go around to different tables that are set up in the perimeter...there's not a chair in the house, they don't want you to sit. This is a format where YOU have to ask questions to all the specialists.

If you haven't prepared there isn't much to do except listen to other guys ask questions. Playing devils advocate, they set this up well to avoid confrontation, reducing potential of group or individuals getting out of hand, and betting that the average Joe doesn't do much research and therefore doesn't know what questions to ask...these guys have done this before...

Synopsis: They are closing a bunch of short spur roads and not closing any trails that are currently open. The main 339 trail that forks off into about 4 trails that all meet at the top will be re-routed into one trail that will be moved to the side of the existing trail.

What I found out is if we can group together and all decide on several short spur roads that we ALL want to prioritize and save we have a much better chance of at least saving those couple.

Look at the maps of the Liberty area that are posted on the USFS map in the EIS and pic a few spur roads as a start.

WHY is the contractor getting such a LONG time to build these roads? This is a must question for Sat. Many others too but I get up when it's dark so I hope to type up a few more comments tomorrow.
 
Its not really a meeting. It is a room with 8 tables, each has a map, pictures and information about the project. Forest Service employees are standing by the tables answering question. Any concerns you have they want it in writing.
 
Just read through this entire thread. It ruined my good fkn mood.
 
x2


WHY is the contractor getting such a LONG time to build these roads? This is a must question for Sat. Many others too but I get up when it's dark so I hope to type up a few more comments tomorrow.

More time to reverse the road closures. FS is getting a lot of money to open roads for fire protection this year and years to come. Part of what they are doing is pacifying the enviros. Also look up RS2477 and read up on that Also might want to read up on RS2793

If you want to throw them for a loop. Ask them to prove that the roads are not RS2477 roads. If you want to slow it down, bury them in paperwork.
 
Me an some buddies are heading up friday to camp and wheelin saturday. Gimme a shout an join us!
 
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