Ls cooling

[cbrjeeper]

Currently do not over heat. Just looking to do some upgrades / service. I have 22x19 Griffin radiator, " it leaks" 16 AN fitted on all ends. T stat, waterpump , inlet and outlet of radiator. Spal fan "works great" Was looking to upgrade to 20AN everything for more flow as I just added a new woopow making 1000hp just on a chip..... So questions are . High flow water pumps, t stats, and radiator. What are you or your friend that's knows a guy running?

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[cbrjeeper]

Idea of how I'm set up now. I can go a lil bigger on rad . I'm not moving it to the back.

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[kmcminn]

165 Lingenfelter Thermostat

 

[CHASMAN9]

Idea of how I'm set up now. I can go a lil bigger on rad . I'm not moving it to the back.

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Watch your loop at the bottom, you have a potential of an air bubble there. Ask me how I know...lol



ADMINISTRATOR

 

[cbrjeeper]

Re: Re: Ls cooling

165 Lingenfelter Thermostat

Keeping things more open? What about temp sensor? I just put a 180 hi flow in. Didn't seem to change much.

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[cbrjeeper]

Re: Re: Ls cooling

Watch your loop at the bottom, you have a potential of an air bubble there. Ask me how I know...lol



ADMINISTRATOR

Agreed its always a pia getting air out. Will definitely change with the 20 AN upgrade

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[wizzo]

CBR radiators - https://www.cbr-performance.com/off-road/

Do yourself a favor and get one. If you're replacing the radiator anyway, it's a no brainer. We've seen drastic improvements over the griffins. Hit me up with any questions.

 

[Jduck]

CBR radiators - https://www.cbr-performance.com/off-road/

Do yourself a favor and get one. If you're replacing the radiator anyway, it's a no brainer. We've seen drastic improvements over the griffins. Hit me up with any questions.

What kind of temp drops are y’all getting out of the cbr’s? The griffins seem to be right around 20-25 degrees of cooling measured on the input/outputs. I’ve seen the posts about the fins/inch of the cbr’s being a higher count and wasn’t sure what that equates to in real world heat exchange efficiency.

 

[cbrjeeper]

I definitely want to move into something else than Griffin.

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[Bebop]

PWR rads with a new brushless fan from SPAL.

Their core design is second to none (CBR can build you a radiator with the PWR core I think) and the brushless fans are the **** (no relay, soft start and progressive speed and amp draw).

If you call PWR they will quote you what you want and they have the brushless fans available. Fair warning, they arent cheap. I was quotted about $1500 for a custom 28x19 with tappered tanks.



I would look into adding an expansion tank if you can. It solved a few issues for a friend of mine in a buggy that was tight in terms of space. Expansion tanks add a lot of volume and help degas the steam from the upper part of the heads in the LS/Vortec series (from the steam port).

 

[cbrjeeper]

I will ck them out for sure. Good info on the tank. I have one as well. Also have Earl's steam port set up on all 4 corners. Just talked to Ron Davis. Waiting on price. They also say use a spal fan. My spal works wonders

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[mrdrinksalil]

I can tell you what isn't working...

Test Run in the new buggy this week. 225-230 if you're getting after it. Will cool back down to 185-190 while you idle and drink beers. Temps confirmed with Temp Gun.
L96, LS3 intake, 228/230 Cam, conservative fuel ratio and timing, 2010+ Camaro Water pump with -16AN to the back of the buggy and 160 degree thermostat. Purge line ran to top of the water pump but has bleeder valve to release an air pocket.

Griffin 31x16 radiator and fan combo that WOD sells. (Griffin CU-55271-Q). Two Rows of 1.25 Tubes. Fans are rated at 1700CFM total.

Coolant temperature is reading off the driver side head. Stock L96 temp sender to Holley Dominator ECU and then to AEM CD7 display. 50/50 coolant mix. Added a can of water wetter and might have lost 3-5 degrees but no magic in a bottle.

Did the no spill funnel job to get all the air out of it I could. Going to add a second temp sender in the back of the passenger head to see if coolant temp reads lower there.

Thoughts? I'm curious to see the difference in temperature in the passenger head but im thinking 1700CFM in that Griffin setup just isn't enough airflow.

 

[cbrjeeper]

Get a spal.. they are technically a lower cfm then other fans you will see for sale but they flat out work. 150 for the 16in top dog they sell. 2000 cfm.. I put a 2700 cfm flexalite and pulled it back off 2 hrs later. Spal way out performed. They also make some real nice dual fan set ups that should fit yours.
With that long of a travel for the coolant, you thinking of a higher flow pump?

Prw, evans, edlebrock, and flowkooler are all at top of my list rite now for water pumps. Ron Davis told me that there is a mezeire makes a mechanical pump that should work with our set ups . Waiting on a part number and price. But claimed they are great. I'm really leaning torwards the Evan's pump. I'm also goin from 16 an to 20 an to allow more flow.

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[Jduck]

Get a spal.. they are technically a lower cfm then other fans you will see for sale but they flat out work. 150 for the 16in top dog they sell. 2000 cfm.. I put a 2700 cfm flexalite and pulled it back off 2 hrs later. Spal way out performed. They also make some real nice dual fan set ups that should fit yours.
With that long of a travel for the coolant, you thinking of a higher flow pump?

Prw, evans, edlebrock, and flowkooler are all at top of my list rite now for water pumps. Ron Davis told me that there is a mezeire makes a mechanical pump that should work with our set ups . Waiting on a part number and price. But claimed they are great. I'm really leaning torwards the Evan's pump. I'm also goin from 16 an to 20 an to allow more flow.

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The fans that come with the griffin combo units are spals.

 

[cbrjeeper]

Got it. Well there goes my shot in the dark

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[cbrjeeper]

Butttt.. 1700cfm total that came with the Griffin unit seems light for that motor combo.

I'm running Griffin 22x19 with 1 16 inch 2036cfm fan and stay at 200 210 mostly. Idle it comes down to 185. They have some bad ass dual set ups that put out 2700 3200 cfm that should fit.

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[mna0121]

The Griffin rad will be fine, I have a $20 yard sale unit in mine, 422 ci LS. Fix the leak. Spal fans with custom shroud that covers the entire cooling surface and most important, ad an expansion tank. The tank doesn't have to be huge but needs to be the highest point in your water system and the steam vents need to terminate into the tank. Put the highest pressure cap you can find on the radiator or weld the neck closed but use a 14 or 16 lb cap on the exp. tank, this will become your fill point and will act like a burper 24/7. RTR

 

[cbrjeeper]

Appreciate that. I run a 16 cap now. Like the idea of closing it off and making expansion tank the fill. My 4 corner steam vent kit goes into the intake, that I dont agree with. Run to the expansion tank seems way more gooder

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[wizzo]

What kind of temp drops are y’all getting out of the cbr’s? The griffins seem to be right around 20-25 degrees of cooling measured on the input/outputs. I’ve seen the posts about the fins/inch of the cbr’s being a higher count and wasn’t sure what that equates to in real world heat exchange efficiency.

We seen roughly 50% drop in water temp from inlet temperature to water coming out when we installed a CBR. So if water in was 190, water out of CBR was 85, roughly. This was a buggy going from a "nice" griffin to a comparable CBR.

Get a spal.. they are technically a lower cfm then other fans you will see for sale but they flat out work.

The fans that come with the griffin combo units are spals.

Not all "spal" fans are the same. Blade type makes a big difference apparently. Also, the Spal fans that griffin uses are the low profile motors, CBR specifically told us "they would never use those models".

The Griffin rad will be fine,

If you say so........ I've got another buddy swapping from a "nice" griffin to a CBR because it will not keep his water temps in check. Good luck with that theory.

Last thing I want to be concerned about in the summer in the SE is water temps............ Especially if you have any sort of investment in your motor, don't cheap out on the radiator.

 

[extremetownie]

I can tell you what isn't working...

Test Run in the new buggy this week. 225-230 if you're getting after it. Will cool back down to 185-190 while you idle and drink beers. Temps confirmed with Temp Gun.
L96, LS3 intake, 228/230 Cam, conservative fuel ratio and timing, 2010+ Camaro Water pump with -16AN to the back of the buggy and 160 degree thermostat. Purge line ran to top of the water pump but has bleeder valve to release an air pocket.

Griffin 31x16 radiator and fan combo that WOD sells. (Griffin CU-55271-Q). Two Rows of 1.25 Tubes. Fans are rated at 1700CFM total.

Coolant temperature is reading off the driver side head. Stock L96 temp sender to Holley Dominator ECU and then to AEM CD7 display. 50/50 coolant mix. Added a can of water wetter and might have lost 3-5 degrees but no magic in a bottle.

Did the no spill funnel job to get all the air out of it I could. Going to add a second temp sender in the back of the passenger head to see if coolant temp reads lower there.

Thoughts? I'm curious to see the difference in temperature in the passenger head but im thinking 1700CFM in that Griffin setup just isn't enough airflow.


I dont see a problem with 225-230 if you are on it hard and it does not get any higher. That is why we have pressurized systems. I would give it a second chance on some long pulls and if it does not climb any more,i would give it a thumbs up. If you where testing at choco and ran Forney trail hard all the way , i would call 230 good.

 

[Bebop]

Not all "spal" fans are the same. Blade type makes a big difference apparently. Also, the Spal fans that griffin uses are the low profile motors, CBR specifically told us "they would never use those models".

Definitely not all Spal fans are the same.

Spal fan brushed lineup:

https://www.a1electric.com/catalog/cat_spal.htm

I encourage you to read through the tech info on this website, it's very useful.

Some info on the brushless lineup :

https://wizardcooling.com/spal-brushless-fans/

I don't have the money for these but they are the absolute ****.

If you say so........ I've got another buddy swapping from a "nice" griffin to a CBR because it will not keep his water temps in check. Good luck with that theory.

What core does the CBR radiator you are using come with ? Standard or do you get the extra PWR option ? What makes the CBR stuff so superior in your opinion?

 

[wizzo]

What core does the CBR radiator you are using come with ? Standard or do you get the extra PWR option ? What makes the CBR stuff so superior in your opinion?

Standard core.

What makes it more superior:
CBR uses thicker material aluminum. The way a number of guys are mounting radiators with weld on pucks, which I don't prefer, this helps quite a bit with leaks. I've seen a number of the mounting pucks tear away or out of the radiator tanks. The over all quality of the CBR is second to none.

All I can go off of is what what I've seen in my own experiences. Actual improvements I've seen when going from one product to another. This isn't internet hear say or CFM data on some chart.

Is the CBR radiator more expensive? Yes. But when you're building a buggy and doing your best to build the nicest product, while not cutting corners, cooling is one place that you defiantly shouldn't cut corners and buy the best you can.

This is only my opinion. Yall do whatever you want.

 

[cbrjeeper]

Imo Griffin is kinda cheap. I've seen cbr, Ron Davis, afco and all look and feel more heavy duty. Personally I over build and over spend on alot of stuff. To stop as much failure as possible. But that said I'm always shopping for what's new and improved. Products get better daily. And I want the best in most logical cases. I want my stuff to work with no worry of ever having high temps. I am currently running good temps. But I want better. Why I'm making changes.

Anyone running aftermarket water pumps?

If you change tstat to 160 is there any issues with factory temp sensor ? What is a 160 doing or helping in our type of builds?

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[Bebop]

The 160 deg thermostat will let your cooling system start cooling the engine earlier and bring the temperatures to a lower point before shutting the flow of coolant off. I do have one in my buggy.

It doesn’t interfere with the temperature sender as they are 2 complete different systems and have nothing to do with each other.

I don’t see the need for a performance water pump as many high hp applications are more than ok with a stock pump.

 

[cbrjeeper]

Ahh ok got it. Appreciate that.

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[mrdrinksalil]

If you change tstat to 160 is there any issues with factory temp sensor ? What is a 160 doing or helping in our type of builds?

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The LS cooling system differs from SBC motors in that the thermostat is at the inlet of the pump (coolest point), not the outlet of the manifold (hottest point). Coolant flow over the thermostat comes through the heater core circuit (that many of us block off) and/or through the bypass check valve on the back of the thermostat. The bypass always bypasses some coolant to open the thermostat OR bypasses full pump flow if the thermostat is closed. The stock 187ish thermostat only starts to open at 187. If you can start to open at 160 it gives the coolant a head start to circulate and cool.

When the thermostat IS open it’s combining with heater core flow (possibly blocked off) and cool water from the radiator. If your radiator is cooling better or more than full open temp of your thermostat, the returning coolant is fighting to close the thermostat. IMO this is why some have better performance NOT capping the heater core circuit and running the loop hose.

Clear as mud?


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[cbrjeeper]

Now that's some good tech.
Clear as mud

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[mrdrinksalil]

Moved the temperature sensor to the passenger head today. Passenger head reads 6-12 degrees cooler.

Idle temperatures

181 Driver Head
174 Passenger Head

Getting after it temperatures

229 Driver Head
217 Passenger Head

The fans that came on my Griffin Combo 31x15.5 radiator are 12” low profile SPALs rated 1722CFM total airflow.

Going to upgrade one of the fans for now with a Maradyne M122K that should bring total airflow around 2400CFM and see how that does. The M122K should be a direct bolt in for my current shroud and flow 1548CFM each.


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[cbrjeeper]

Very good. Lmk what happens. I've purchased a Ron Davis rad and a prw pump. Won't get rad for a couple weeks. They also recommend the 16in spal unit for my set up. 'I currently run'.. will See how it acts.

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[cbrjeeper]

I will add that speaking to ron davis , prw, and flowkooler . All asked if I was running radiator in rear of buggy. And all highly recommended to run a higher flow water pump for rear mount set ups. Front mount they said not 100 necessary unless you have a bunch of stuff blocking cooling system. All 3 companies had very similar questions and recommendations.

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