LS or SBC

Rockwells607 · Jun 16, 2011

so my buddy bought the Spider Chassis, he has an LS from the bone yard but this was setup originally for sbc,he is torn wich way to go, sbc or ls? keep in mind with the ls that he will have to purchase wiring harness, computer, re-do motor mounts and possibly engine guard, he also wants to be 500 plus hp. the sbc would bolt right up, we live in 358 dirt modified country so they are everywhere...all thoughts apreciated......he wants to get it finished asap so we can do some :driving:

soon

Elliott · Jun 16, 2011

You can get Motor mounts that will bolt right up to the old style frame mounts. Power and reliability ls hands down but you are going to have some cha Ching in it for the first set up.all depends what you want to spend.

zr2x350 · Jun 16, 2011

LS is a gen III and gen IV sbc, just to let you know......and older style sbc is not even in comparison ....As Elliott stated though, it takes more money for sure to build a LS just simply because its the new thing and the supply/ demand is still high. IF you are wanting to achieve 500hp its gonna be costly with either decision, but it will be much cheaper building a old school sbc carbureted. Your just not gonna have the efficiency of an LS series.

Blase · Jun 17, 2011

Rockwells607 · Jun 17, 2011

theres alot of 500hp sbc's around our neck of the woods, dirt racing is huge here...he was thinkin of that route with a fuel injection unit on top, the buggy is setup for a motor plate, not normal bolt in motor mounts

CHASMAN9 · Jun 17, 2011

I guess I am from the old school way of thinking. SBC, dime a dozen anywhere and parts are readily available at most stores. Build the hell out of one for pennies and great reliability. I could be wrong, but what TYPE of motors are guys like Brian C, Bobby T, Wes, and the whole propane running world running? I believe most of them are derived from the old school engine block with updated injection and ignition systems. I do not know this for a fact, so don't be going all postal on this opinion, just more or less asking. :dunno:

IMO the LS motor is great, I'm now running one, but everything is computer oriented and I'm no Bill Gates so I leave the tuning to the pro's for sure. :dblthumb:

blacksheep10 · Jun 17, 2011

Gregg, you have to dump some money in an old sbc platform to get that kind of power and to make it last for a long time. 2 or 4 bolt mains, weak stock cranks and shitty stock rods with heads that need severe updating or replacing make it expensive to get an honest 500 and have it last for thousands of hours. LS engines are 6 bolts on the mains, good rods from the factory and the stock bottom end can handle 500 without much if any modding. The heads flow really well, and if you need more, there are stock offerings that bolt right on cheap. The injection is already done. All you need to do is pay someone $400 to cut the harness and flash the brain. Less if you just want the harness done and will have a dyno tuner really get your engine where it needs to be on efi live. You can get that last 25 or even 50 horse relatively cheaply with a good dyno shop.
With the old school engine, lets say its near free. An after market injection system isn't cheap, and tuning it isn't either unless you're good or know someone that is
The last option is the sbc on propane. It seems to work quite well for many many people. It handles lots of compression well and runs at any angle. The downfall is the cylinders being obtrusive and the fact that is you're in the middle of nowhere, you have to take spares.

If you spend a few more $ up front, the upgrades and reliability of the LS motor will pay off down the road.

CHASMAN9 · Jun 17, 2011

blacksheep10 said:
Gregg, you have to dump some money in an old sbc platform to get that kind of power and to make it last for a long time. 2 or 4 bolt mains, weak stock cranks and shitty stock rods with heads that need severe updating or replacing make it expensive to get an honest 500 and have it last for thousands of hours. LS engines are 6 bolts on the mains, good rods from the factory and the stock bottom end can handle 500 without much if any modding. The heads flow really well, and if you need more, there are stock offerings that bolt right on cheap. The injection is already done. All you need to do is pay someone $400 to cut the harness and flash the brain. Less if you just want the harness done and will have a dyno tuner really get your engine where it needs to be on efi live. You can get that last 25 or even 50 horse relatively cheaply with a good dyno shop.
With the old school engine, lets say its near free. An after market injection system isn't cheap, and tuning it isn't either unless you're good or know someone that is
The last option is the sbc on propane. It seems to work quite well for many many people. It handles lots of compression well and runs at any angle. The downfall is the cylinders being obtrusive and the fact that is you're in the middle of nowhere, you have to take spares.

If you spend a few more $ up front, the upgrades and reliability of the LS motor will pay off down the road.

Cool Kelly, that is what I was looking for in an answer. I had around $7000 in my 388ci stroker and well over 500 hp. I have never built an LS, only what is in mine now, and it came from Turnkey that way. What is the base motor for the engines that those guys are running though. :dunno:

blacksheep10 · Jun 17, 2011

Totally dependent on what platform you buy in on. Most of the guys around here (offroad world) start with a truck 6.0 and go from there. With a cam swap and some parts changing and dyno tuning, 500 is very realistic from that platform and it will do that for lots of years to come. If you want to spend a few more $, go get a new truck 6.2 liter vvt motor, buy MAST's computer and harness with their cam and be at 510 honest at the crank with pretty much no changing of anything or setup (except cam swap). It is amazing that you can now take a stock long block out of a plain jane pickup truck and swap a cam and computer and put down over 500 horse without blinking and eye. Brian Shirley did this in his new buggy and I've never seen a rig light the tires as fast as his does. instant smoke and OMG laughing1

BradWester · Jun 17, 2011

I would not trade my little 5.3 for a old school chevy EVER. And if he is running a midplate motor mount (between motor and trans) it will bolt right in!! My 5.3 rev limiter is at 6700 rpm's and it will turn it if needed when you call on it. My next mods to it are going to be a cam and spring swap.

kennyWayne · Jun 18, 2011

CHASMAN9 said:
I guess I am from the old school way of thinking. SBC, dime a dozen anywhere and parts are readily available at most stores. Build the hell out of one for pennies and great reliability. I could be wrong, but what TYPE of motors are guys like Brian C, Bobby T, Wes, and the whole propane running world running? I believe most of them are derived from the old school engine block with updated injection and ignition systems. I do not know this for a fact, so don't be going all postal on this opinion, just more or less asking. IMO the LS motor is great, I'm now running one, but everything is computer oriented and I'm no Bill Gates so I leave the tuning to the pro's for sure.

thats rite on dat ol school , :dblthumb:

Cole · Jun 18, 2011

Just ask Bryan Cole what he thinks about Mark Statems LS2 :driving:

454tbacon · Jun 18, 2011

There's no subsitube for cubic inches ,just my oppinion.

zr2x350 · Jun 18, 2011

454tbacon said:
There's no subsitube for cubic inches ,just my oppinion.

It all depends. Its really personal preference once its all said and done, but with the new small blocks you get big block power. No matter how you look at it, it all depends on what you know, who you know, and how deep your pockets are. ;D

InDaShop · Jun 18, 2011

454tbacon said:
There's no subsitube for cubic inches ,just my oppinion.

Sure there is.......lots of boost, different fuel, different atmophere composition (nos).

I've got a little 155ci motor that makes 1200hp on methanol, and a lil boost. How many motors you know with 3x's that many cubes make those kind of HP numbers?

Lots of substitutes for cubic inches.

jojo · Jun 18, 2011

Your all wrong need to put small block ford in it :dblthumb:

But I think you wouldn't go wrong wit puttin the dirt car motor in it

wagnon89 · Jun 19, 2011

Had a 350 SBC in my last rig. A little head work, cam, intake, etc. Nothing major. Good strong running motor. Got a stock 6 liter LS in my new rig. Absolute no comparison. New motor blows the old school unit out of the water in every single way. Feels like twice the power and smooth as hell. Just my two pennies.

454tbacon · Jun 19, 2011

InDaShop said:
Sure there is.......lots of boost, different fuel, different atmophere composition (nos).

I've got a little 155ci motor that makes 1200hp on methanol, and a lil boost. How many motors you know with 3x's that many cubes make those kind of HP numbers?

Lots of substitutes for cubic inches.

Bring it to the woods lets see what you got.

Elliott · Jun 19, 2011

And no one is mentioning you can stroke the ls to have as many cubes as a big block, you can get heads to flow as much as most aftermarket big block heads, and all this while you could have an aluminum block and heads and be a ton lighter.I've always been old school but you just can't beat these new cylinder heads on the ls motors for power,

zr2x350 · Jun 19, 2011

Elliott said:
And no one is mentioning you can stroke the ls to have as many cubes as a big block, you can get heads to flow as much as most aftermarket big block heads, and all this while you could have an aluminum block and heads and be a ton lighter.I've always been old school but you just can't beat these new cylinder heads on the ls motors for power,

no way possible. They have curved waaaaaaay past the old stuff, big blocks included and will continue to get lighter, stronger, and more powerful until it gets out of hand kinda like the new dodge diesel they are starting to talk about.(800ft lbs tq with 30,000 lb gross weight towing capacity. )