Non-zoot Hydraulic Steering rams (full time)

Boxxerace · Sep 1, 2007

Do you guys have some specs to zero in on a ram that would work for dedicated hydraulic steering? The first question is, is there anything even on the market that would last and be compatible within the PSI and flow rates created by a stock or aftermarket steering pump?

Take this for example:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200309325_200309325

Is there a model sold at northern tool that even meets the ballpark specs? It's 1/5 the cost of a PSC, so is a pile of tractor garbage? Please, school a newb!

ld:

Boxxerace · Sep 1, 2007

2500 PSI
3in. bore
6in. stroke
16 1/4in. closed pin center distance
1 1/4in. shaft

briejer · Sep 1, 2007

The 3" bore is going to take a lot of fluid. I am using 2" bore with no issues.

I have used 2"x8" and 2"x12" on a stock pump

use this one instead http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200309313_200309313

Cascade_Crawler · Sep 1, 2007

IM planning on using the 2" one when I get around to full hydro on the front 60

Not Jobless · Sep 1, 2007

2x6 or a 2x8 should be more than enough

benw1 · Sep 1, 2007

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2007090110505441&item=9-7259-8&catname=hydraulic

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2007090110505441&item=943-08&catname=hydraulic

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2007090110505441&item=9-6070-208&catname=hydraulic

CrustyJeep · Sep 1, 2007

3" bore would take all week to turn lock to lock, and would probly destroy something the first time you got it bound up.

With 1500 psi hydraulic pressure, you'd get this many pounds of force at the ram:

2": 4700
3": 10600

Boxxerace · Sep 1, 2007

Pope CrustyJeep said:
3" bore would take all week to turn lock to lock, and would probly destroy something the first time you got it bound up.

With 1500 psi hydraulic pressure, you'd get this many pounds of force at the ram:

2": 4700
3": 10600

Damn! What's the mathmatic conversion (just for grins?)

benw1 · Sep 1, 2007

Force is PSI X area of the piston

# of Turns is Volume of cylinder / displacement per rev of the steering valve.

oldbeercans · Sep 2, 2007

benw said:
Force is PSI X area of the piston

# of Turns is Volume of cylinder / displacement per rev of the steering valve.

seems like he knows what he is talking about. ill make a mental note of this so i can use this later.

Boxxerace · Sep 3, 2007

Alright, you guys are already on top of the first question.

How about a poor-guys version of a steering valve? Something out there?

CrustyJeep · Sep 3, 2007

benw said:
Force is PSI X area of the piston

Yup, and area of piston is Pi * Radius ^ 2 (Pi times square of radius). Type this into Google: Pi * (3 / 2) ^ 2.

To calculate force on return (which will be less), you would first calculate the area of the rod, then subtract that from the area of the piston.

Long&Low · Sep 7, 2007

I've heard the Redneck Ram kits from a group out of TX (I think, but not sure)are pretty decent units and fairly priced. Not sure if that's any help, just thought I'd give you a heads up.

aircrawler · Sep 10, 2007

That is a piece of garbage ...The reason beeing is that the ends are held together by those TINY little rods. you DO NOT want to run that on a rig that is going anywhere near a piece of gravel over 1.5" tall LOL. NO SERIOUSLY 2"x6 inch ram will work , but you will get psi issues so do not exeed that dim if you are runnin YOTE axles..UNLESS you run Bobby's ends. i heard they can turn sharper.. if tht is true then you could sneak a 7" but make sure it is RIGHT AND DEAD CENTER!! Crash has a sight for building up psi.. I run a 1.5" bore on a full size 44 and my steering is WAY faster than Border patrol's and i use a stock pump/pumped!! a 2" is slower!!got an I IDEA?? OH YEAH build the living hell out of your tie rod!!!

War-Jeeper · Sep 10, 2007

aircrawler said:
That is a piece of garbage ...The reason beeing is that the ends are held together by those TINY little rods. you DO NOT want to run that on a rig that is going anywhere near a piece of gravel over 1.5" tall LOL. NO SERIOUSLY 2"x6 inch ram will work , but you will get psi issues so do not exeed that dim if you are runnin YOTE axles..UNLESS you run Bobby's ends. i heard they can turn sharper.. if tht is true then you could sneak a 7" but make sure it is RIGHT AND DEAD CENTER!! Crash has a sight for building up psi.. I run a 1.5" bore on a full size 44 and my steering is WAY faster than Border patrol's and i use a stock pump/pumped!! a 2" is slower!!got an I IDEA?? OH YEAH build the living hell out of your tie rod!!!

its going on a D60

aircrawler · Sep 12, 2007

SO yeah do the 2" dia and it should take an 8"L fine.. your good but get a ram without those little rods it should screw together to acces the packings from one or both ends!! just a suggestion!! re drill the holes in the ram to 1/2 " and use that size hoses. you might have to hone the inside real quick or i have got lucky using a uni-bit with no burrs on the inside. if you can o[pen up the pump the same way that is good also.. Goto border patrols thread on hydo steering and crash put a link on one that lets ya get jiggy with your pump!!

darius · Sep 12, 2007

aircrawler said:
SO yeah do the 2" dia and it should take an 8"L fine.. your good but get a ram without those little rods it should screw together to acces the packings from one or both ends!! just a suggestion!! re drill the holes in the ram to 1/2 " and use that size hoses. you might have to hone the inside real quick or i have got lucky using a uni-bit with no burrs on the inside. if you can o[pen up the pump the same way that is good also.. Goto border patrols thread on hydo steering and crash put a link on one that lets ya get jiggy with your pump!!

I didn't realize having a 60 meant 8" ram, it acutally depend's on the length of high steer arm's or stock arm's, however you are attaching. In all you're experience how many of the cheapy ram's have you seen fail due to the "weak little pieces of all thread"??? We have sold hundred's of kit's here with than identical ram, and never one failure due to the all thread, and to my knowledge only one failure total, smashing a ram into a 3 foot rock under full power with 5 second's left on a course will do that.

Turtle Bite · Sep 12, 2007

Originally Posted by aircrawler
That is a piece of garbage ...The reason beeing is that the ends are held together by those TINY little rods. you DO NOT want to run that on a rig that is going anywhere near a piece of gravel over 1.5" tall LOL. NO SERIOUSLY 2"x6 inch ram will work , but you will get psi issues so do not exeed that dim if you are runnin YOTE axles..UNLESS you run Bobby's ends. i heard they can turn sharper.. if tht is true then you could sneak a 7" but make sure it is RIGHT AND DEAD CENTER!! Crash has a sight for building up psi.. I run a 1.5" bore on a full size 44 and my steering is WAY faster than Border patrol's and i use a stock pump/pumped!! a 2" is slower!!got an I IDEA?? OH YEAH build the living hell out of your tie rod!!!

Dude you are on the pipe. You do not have to have bigger ports and lines, there is very little flow to the cylinder. Think about how much it takes to fill it, maybe 3 cups lock to lock? The cylinders are beefy, just not chromed like a PSC or HOWE. The combination of the orbital displacement AND the ram size determine the speed, providing your pump can keep up. I have a 6 inch travel on my toyota and I need a 7, badass steering left, not so much right. Any of these should be good for a 60:

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2007091215064591&item=9-6845&catname=hydraulic

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2007091215064591&item=9-6688&catname=hydraulic

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2007091215064591&item=9-7278&catname=hydraulic

Boxxerace · Sep 13, 2007

Found some other useful resources for you all.

http://hydraulicsteeringtech.com/

Below is a chart to help with full hydraulic cylinder and steering valve selection. The basic formula for figuring out how many turns lock to lock of your steering system is to take the volume of the cylinder and divide it by the output displacement of the steering valve.

volume of cylinder / cu in of orbital = turns lock to lock

example 25.82/7.6= 3.39 turns lock to lock

cylinder volume formula = piston area x stroke (note you must subtract the area or volume that the rod displaces when figuing the volume of a cylinder on the rod side of the cylinder)

area of a circle formula = 3.14(Pi) x radius squared

example - a 1.75 bore cylinder has 1.75 diameter, which has a radius of .75 (diameter divided in half = radius). 3.14 x .75 x .75 = a piston area of 1.766 You then multiply that by your stroke to get displacement area or volume of your cylinder. 8 x 1.766 = 14.13 volume area

You also can take your piston area and muliply that by your pump pressure to figure the force that the cylinder is able to produce.

nick c · Sep 13, 2007

Boxxerace said:
example - a 1.75 bore cylinder has 1.75 diameter, which has a radius of .75 (diameter divided in half = radius). 3.14 x .75 x .75 = a piston area of 1.766 You then multiply that by your stroke to get displacement area or volume of your cylinder. 8 x 1.766 = 14.13 volume area.

If my math serves me right... Dia = 1.75 then the Rad = .875 (Dia x .5 = Rad)

Good info though... :corn: