Project "Naughty Finger"

Naughty_Finger · Jan 16, 2014

I have created and uploaded my first video showing how I am using Bend Tech Pro to design my tube chassis. Before anyone watches it, understand that I am not a professional fabricator. I have some abilities and some experience but I don't do this for a living. I also want to make it clear that this is only the first video. This video doesn't really highlight the best features of Bend Tech Pro which I will show later on when I start constructing the chassis. Bend Tech pro has a lot of great features when it comes to measuring for bends and notching tube. Since it calibrates to your specific tools it can save you a ton of money is screw ups. From a designing stand point it's pretty lacking but their are ways to overcome the issues. It might look like I am bashing the program in this first video but that's only because I'm using it for something it really shouldn't be used for. Before I bought the program I saw the promotional videos showing how "easy" it was to design a simple tube buggy. That's very misleading because if you watch that video the person making it knows EXACTLY where to place each point and how long everything needs to be. The chassis was either pre-designed or designed using some other software because in the real world it's not until you see the actual project coming together in front of you do you really get an idea of sizes, spacing and all that other fun stuff. It's the adjusting part that is the most difficult. I've redone this part in the video maybe 10 times and each time when I go to change a frame rail for instance, I have to delete it, move each individual point then remake the part. THEN delete the frame rail on the opposite side and all the points THEN paste the new one. THEN adjust everything connected to it. Adding 6 additional inches to my belly pan was a 30 minute endeavor. If it didn't have these "glitches" it would be a LOT easier to work with. If I were to make a single suggestion that would make this program much easier to design with , it would be to make it so that it functions like photoshop in that you can create groups or folders to place parts in that way you can manage the project much easier. As this thing gets bigger and more "complete" it's going to be a convoluted mess of points and parts with no ability to group them or name them. Here is the link to the video.

Bend Tech Pro Buggy Design Step 1

Draco · Jan 17, 2014

Naughty_Finger said:
I have created and uploaded my first video showing how I am using Bend Tech Pro to design my tube chassis. Before anyone watches it, understand that I am not a professional fabricator. I have some abilities and some experience but I don't do this for a living. I also want to make it clear that this is only the first video. This video doesn't really highlight the best features of Bend Tech Pro which I will show later on when I start constructing the chassis. Bend Tech pro has a lot of great features when it comes to measuring for bends and notching tube. Since it calibrates to your specific tools it can save you a ton of money is screw ups. From a designing stand point it's pretty lacking but their are ways to overcome the issues. It might look like I am bashing the program in this first video but that's only because I'm using it for something it really shouldn't be used for. Before I bought the program I saw the promotional videos showing how "easy" it was to design a simple tube buggy. That's very misleading because if you watch that video the person making it knows EXACTLY where to place each point and how long everything needs to be. The chassis was either pre-designed or designed using some other software because in the real world it's not until you see the actual project coming together in front of you do you really get an idea of sizes, spacing and all that other fun stuff. It's the adjusting part that is the most difficult. I've redone this part in the video maybe 10 times and each time when I go to change a frame rail for instance, I have to delete it, move each individual point then remake the part. THEN delete the frame rail on the opposite side and all the points THEN paste the new one. THEN adjust everything connected to it. Adding 6 additional inches to my belly pan was a 30 minute endeavor. If it didn't have these "glitches" it would be a LOT easier to work with. If I were to make a single suggestion that would make this program much easier to design with , it would be to make it so that it functions like photoshop in that you can create groups or folders to place parts in that way you can manage the project much easier. As this thing gets bigger and more "complete" it's going to be a convoluted mess of points and parts with no ability to group them or name them. Here is the link to the video.

Bend Tech Pro Buggy Design Step 1

100% accurate. You and I feel the same way. Like you, I read everything about how "easy" it is to build chassis etc. Yea....Not so much. I'm gonna end up using this to make single parts. It will save money there, and eventually pay for itself...Not even close to what I was expecting from this product. It really bothers me that you can't see the overall size of anything without going through a bunch of **** and then adding everything together...You described it best...Cluster ****.

Naughty_Finger · Jan 17, 2014

I am glad it helped someone. I have made more progress but the further along I get the worse it gets. Right now I think I have about over 100 "points" and unnamed staright pieces. If I had the ability to group it into folders so I can work on one section at a time it would be nice. Unfortunately to do that you have to click the "X" for EVERY SINGLE POINT AND PART to hide them from view. I have also experienced a lot more issues with glitches.

1. The projections menu gets "hung up" and won't close.
2. Sometimes when I change a project it changes the viewing of all my points and parts so they all show again and I have to manually go BACK in and hide them again.
3. The display menu is aggravating. Aside from not being able to name all your parts, it allows you to open more than one window of it. Why would it allow that? A very simple line or two of code can check to see if the window is open, if not open it. If it is open do nothing. ( I am a programmer so I KNOW that 's not hard to do )
4. The display option also sometimes just don't work. I will open it. Then click about 4 parts or points to hide but when I get to number 6 or 7 it just stops working. I can click them all and nothing happens. ONLY way around it is to click the option to show EVERYTHING again then close it, open it back up and start again. I only use "5" as an example because I have yet to figure out any actual "tendency" causing this glitch.

I am not a quitter but I think as far as using bend tech pro for "designing" my chassis I am going to throw in the white flag. Now, if you are bending tube or making parts it's AWESOME!!!! I think that was what it was intended for. In fact, I think you can save money and get the cheaper version to do that. The pro version is the extra "design" feature which needs a bit of work.

I don't want to sound like a jerk. I REALLY don't.. I'm also not bashing the program or software. I just think I am trying to use it in a way it really wasn't intended to be used. If it was intended to be used this way then I am bashing it because it's really lacking. The people I spoke with at bend tech were really nice ( of course, fellow Minnesotans ) and I feel a little bad with this review. However, I also feel really bad spending $250 on software that is advertised as being able to be used to design a tube chassis and it not being able to do so. Let me correct that.. it CAN but there are better less frustrating ways. In the end I STILL would have bought this software when I build the buggy because it will save me way more than $250 just in scrap mistakes and it will allow me to get everything right the first time ( unless I screw something up. )

scrambled · Jan 18, 2014

Odd to see Gilbert on here. Where about in MN are you located?

Naughty_Finger · Jan 19, 2014

Gilbert is awesome. Hard not to recognize the red rocks. Even more amazing that big black fat beast went through 1%

I'm about 2.5 hours south of Gilbert, North Branch

Naughty_Finger · Jan 21, 2014

I hate quitting.. so I dove back into Bend Tech-Pro for designing. This time I tackled it with multiple files open to help me keep track of everything . I WAS gonna do a video but everytime I tried I ran into glitches and started swearing at the screen which of course was picked up by the mic. I currently have 8 pieces that the software has name "Straight 30" ... Pretty sure it's only supposed to be one name per parts so you can tell them apart.. At any rate.. A video would have made me look like a complaining b!t#$ and I don't want to look like I am bashing the software because it IS WORKING and I am designing my buggy with it despite how glitchy it is. I uploaded some images of what I have so far.

SomewhiteGuy · Jan 21, 2014

First don't take this a bash, you nailed as these programs are only as good as the knowledge from building you put into them. Designing a full chassis from scratch takes a good bit of time and planning as well as some real world experience on what works and how things lay out dimensionally for example I had already built one buggy from scratch and done countless cages, bumpers, sliders and multiple full build outs when I designed Dirty Girl and we still ended up making a bunch of changes during construction. The pic below is 200+ hours of design time and it was still wrong.

Stick with it and if you plan to use the cut and bend files from there make your drawing as close to perfect as you can then be ready to change stuff as you go. I would start by laying the B pillars back and try not to think like you are building a truck as it will end up looking like a box truck (my first buggy did).

Second buggy.

Not trying to hijack, just advise. I will delete if you don't want it here.

Naughty_Finger · Jan 21, 2014

How can I be offended by a guy trying to share his experience and give me free advice? That would be dumb of me. I agree with everything you said. That is the rough., I can adjust from there. Wish I was doing it in solid works. Don't forget its a three seated and I need cooler space

Technician · Jan 21, 2014

what worked for me was the fact that i started with a the standard ladar bar style chasis. Once you get the frame established you can start making it how you want it.

Naughty_Finger · Jan 21, 2014

Yup... I wanted to get the basic "geometry" set. I created "fake" seats, engine, tranny, and tcase based on measurements. I make the "appear" to make sure I get my spacing correct. Now that the geometry is all set and everything has a space accounted for I can work on making it "mine" so to speak. I realize it's impossible for me to do this up in a program, ANY program for that matter and just build it to spec. I wanted to "design it" so I could have a "blue print" reference so to speak. Once have the jig up with the engine and drive train in place i can get to work. The cool thing about bend tech pro is I can use this as my reference then when I get to a part like the rock rails, I can easily use the real dimensions off my actual chassis then create that part is less that 5 minutes and know where to start my bends and where to notch. I took White guy's advice and leaned my pillars back a bit.. looks much better.. also worked on the side bars. Still needs a little work on the roof and other spots. I'll put a pic up tomorrow. Also when It's done i'll have the "plans" or bend tech file available free for download. it would be a good starting point for someone.

Naughty_Finger · Jan 22, 2014

Ok, here are the recent changes.. this will be a LONG build thread but maybe it will help people looking to design and build a buggy from ground up. From my point of view it's helpful to put up my progress so experienced individuals like whiteguy can chime in with suggestions and knowledge.

Technician · Jan 23, 2014

If you had bendtech SE you could throw some rolled tube in there. but is it worth the extra 300 bones.

Naughty_Finger · Jan 23, 2014

I have enough issues fighting with this version of the software.. Rolled tube would be nice but it's $300 for the software plus another $400 to $500 for a roller with add ons.. I have way too many other places that can use $700... Damn mortgage... getting in the way again.

Naughty_Finger · Feb 12, 2014

This has been a rough winter. Going to club meetings, watching YouTube videos, wheel in DVDs and not being able to work inmy garage because its always below zero SUCKS! I have a heater bit it runs on propane and since there is a shortage on propane around here its a billion dollars a gallon. So I wait, design, over think everything, read other people's build threads and secretly hate on them.

This week it warmed up. 8 degrees, 10 degrees today hit 24 degrees! Bust out the shorts! With that said the build continues. I am almost done with the adjustable table for my chop saw ( tired of plate and saw horses ) and I have most of the steel I need for my chassis table. Pictures coming shortly. Sunday is supposed to be 34 degrees!

TN12Valve · Feb 13, 2014

Looks like you've got a good start to a nice rig there! Keep the updates coming!

TheViking · Feb 13, 2014

Naughty_Finger · Feb 23, 2014

Had a couple nice days so I got something done. I built my "fab table" which holds my fabrication tools and since it is on wheels I can move it around. I only have a three car garage and wifey likes to park her car inside at night so I needed to be able to move thing around easily. I am sick of saw horses and a 1/4 plate.

Right now it has my cold saw, tube notcher, ports ban saw on the swag stand ( love it ) , bench grinder and belt sander on it. Everything fits like a glove but I also want to be able to do the same thing with my tube bender and soon to own roller. If someone out there has a HF roller with the swag attachments can you give me some measurements please. Length, height and thickness. I think I want to remove my bench grinder and belt sander and place the roller there. Or, build another mobile stand for my roller and bender. Those dimensions will go a long way in helping me make that final decision.

I know this is slow. Even worse as I sit here watching ian build a bouncer with his fancy tools. If it was warmer I would be build by now but this winter has been brutal. I could heat my garage but it comes down to money for steel or propane heat or roller or etc... I just heard that overall this winter has been above average around the world temperature wise and Minnesota was one of the few places it is colder than normal. Lucky me.

Hopefully all the time and thought put into getting everything in place will pay off. I hate not having the tools I need or stumbling around looking for thing or worse having to move one tool to use another. I never built a buggy but I have built multiple suspensions and an entire truck from the frame up with a complete cage hidden under the sheet metal. I know from those projects how much time I wasted moving crap around or trying to use the wrong tool because I don't have the right one ( plasma cutting all my notches for example. ). I am documenting or sharing this process with hard line because a lot of builds leave out the important stuff that is overlooks. "Dirty Girl" is a great build thread and really gets into the details.I am trying to take that a bit further. As I sit here watching ian with his lambo buggy he makes it look really easy which it isn't. Maybe when I am done and people read this they won't question why chassis builders charge what they do for their chassis. When you buy the tools, materials and take the time to build one you will see that a jimmy smith or other chassis is in fact a great bargain. I have a friend that is gonna buy a chassis in the near future and I have already begun the "built not bought" smack talk..... With nothing built yet but a damn table