Propane Freezing?

karhart77 · Dec 14, 2008

I've got an 85 Yota, with a 22R on pane. 2 - 7 1/2 gallon forklift tanks mounted in the bed. THe hose is plumbed through the bottom of the bed, up the passenger side frame rail and into the regulator mounted on the passenger inner fender. The problem was that today while headed up Tonga I started to lose power and figured I had an empty tank so I stoppped and switch tanks. Got going again and in just a few short minutes later no power again. So I popped the hood and checked all the hoses, regulator and intake. Everthing was about as warm as my upper radiator hose (temp gauge read 180* - 200* all morning). The rest of the day I barely had an idle. Any throttle and it would die.

So all that being said I'm pretty sure that it's a freezing problem at the tank outlet or line to the regulator. Has anyone experienced this and if so what's the solution to my problem?

Thanks for your help!

Roccrawler · Dec 14, 2008

ya on extremely cold days, but I swapped my tanks so the exhaust blows on the valves and keeps them warm. also if you run dual tanks you can run a "Y" so the draw is equal on both tanks it will help to not freeze them. Maybe you could wrap the valves also? might help..

moose99ps · Dec 14, 2008

what about bottle warmers for nos tanks?

Fordzuki · Dec 14, 2008

You could run coils around the tanks and plumb it to the cooling system.

Or some kind of cheap 12v seat warmers or something.

moose99ps said:
what about bottle warmers for nos tanks?

Sweet! Where do they sell warmers for 7.5 gallon NOS bottles? :corn:

Roccrawler · Dec 14, 2008

its the valve that freezes

410ZukiGirl · Dec 14, 2008

just keep a small torch handy to defrost it.:redneck:

zukkev · Dec 15, 2008

410ZukiGirl said:
just keep a small torch handy to defrost it.:redneck:

And if you have a small Pane leak----

BOOM!!!!

zukkev · Dec 15, 2008

Fordzuki said:
You could run coils around the tanks and plumb it to the cooling system.

Or some kind of cheap 12v seat warmers or something.
:corn:

I like the idea of plumbing something from the heater system;run heater ducting back to the valves ....

moose99ps · Dec 15, 2008

Fordzuki said:
You could run coils around the tanks and plumb it to the cooling system.

Or some kind of cheap 12v seat warmers or something.

Sweet! Where do they sell warmers for 7.5 gallon NOS bottles? :corn:

dude the heat will wick through the steel if you put the bottle warmer up close enough to the valve a-hole :fawkdancesmiley: :fawkdancesmiley:

03 CON · Dec 15, 2008

Roccrawler said:
its the valve that freezes

X2..

Fordzuki · Dec 15, 2008

Roccrawler said:
its the valve that freezes

I think if the tank were warm, it might have a slight warming effect on the valve.

Fordzuki · Dec 15, 2008

moose99ps said:
dude the heat will wick through the steel if you put the bottle warmer up close enough to the valve a-hole :fawkdancesmiley: :fawkdancesmiley:

But still, if you find a 7.5 gallon nos bottle, let me know. :redneck:

pumpy · Dec 15, 2008

I think you might have a bigger problem, A 22r doesn't run enough cfm to freeze the valves. I run a 429 BB on the pane, and the only time I've froze is when I'm low on water when I first fire it up when it's like 15 degrees and that's at the regulator. I think you're adjustment screws are out of whack at the carb.

p.s. I've run ALOT AT MINUS TEMPS and my valves get really frosty, and the hose might be hard to get off the valve but not power issues unless like I said up there.

LOVE THE PANE THOUGH:awesomework:

Trainwreckinseattle · Dec 15, 2008

I agree with pumpy when I used to work at a lumber yard we ran propane forklifts. I ran a huge ****er that used a lot of fuel. The tank was always totally frozen durring the winter. It can be hard to get the hoses off but never ever had a runability problem

karhart77 · Dec 15, 2008

pumpy said:
I think you might have a bigger problem, A 22r doesn't run enough cfm to freeze the valves. I run a 429 BB on the pane, and the only time I've froze is when I'm low on water when I first fire it up when it's like 15 degrees and that's at the regulator. I think you're adjustment screws are out of whack at the carb.

p.s. I've run ALOT AT MINUS TEMPS and my valves get really frosty, and the hose might be hard to get off the valve but not power issues unless like I said up there.

LOVE THE PANE THOUGH:awesomework:

That's what I was thinking too. I never thought that my 4 squirells would pull that kind of cfm to freeze the valves.

So anyone know how to properly adjust one of these?

karhart77 · Dec 15, 2008

I stole this from a RV forum. After reading on there I think I may have a propane butane mix and that's causing my problem. Any comments?

What is really in your tank?

LPG (Liquefied Petroleum Gas) can be propane, butane, or a mixture of the two.
Propane has a freezing point of -310 and a boiling point of about -43 degrees Fahrenheit.

Butane has a freezing point of -144 and a boiling point of about 31 degrees Fahrenheit.

If you purchased your LPG in the north or a cold climate, you can probably safely assume that is propane. If you purchased it in the south and during warm weather, there is a high chance that it could be a blend of propane and butane and possibly just butane.
.
LPG (Propane/Butane) is liquefied by pressure. This means that in our normal environment ( our standard air pressure and average temperatures) it would be a gas. However, if it is compressed (put under pressure) it becomes a liquid. It must be kept under pressure to remain a liquid and this explains the difference between the equipment and procedures used to fill your propane tank and to fill your fuel (gasoline/diesel) tank.

When using propane/butane, the tank valve is opened, the regulator allows the pressure to be released at a controlled rate.
When the pressure is released, the liquid propane/butane (boils) changes into a gas at low pressure which flows to the burner. When a liquid changes to a gas, it boils.
(This boiling takes energy. Heat energy is taken from the tank's surroundings and this is why the tank gets colder.)

Propane has a boiling point of about -44 degrees Fahrenheit. Most of us do not use our RV's at this temperature so above this temperature, the propane will boil off and the gas would flow to our burners.

Butane, on the other hand, has a boiling point of about 31 degrees Fahrenheit. Many of us do use our RV's at this and even lower temperatures. If the Tank and contents are below 31 degrees Fahrenheit, the butane will not boil, thus it just stays in the tank as a liquid, even though the valve is open. With out the butane boiling and the gas flowing out of the regulator, no burners will work.

If your burners work when the outside temperatures are above 35 degrees Fahrenheit or so and not below, then this could be your problem.

pumpy · Dec 15, 2008

I've never heard of the butane thing but makes sense guess I rifle through the pane pretty fast, as in the oldest pane I got is about 2 weeks old, so ya try that idea couldn't hurt to change out a tank.