Rear spring travel

[JThompson]

I had, about one year ago, done an SAS on my '91 Toyota. I went for the gusto, meaning, longer springs, hy-steer, rebuilt entire front axle, locker, gears, armor, etc.. I have been wondering lately if my rearend wasn't flexing as well as I expected because the shocks were too long. I recently took them off, measured them a full compression and extension, then went up to Reiter to do a little testing. I found out that the shocks are fine by a few inches either way. My front, which has bumpstops, stiffer springs, less broke-in, and shorter..., actually articulates farther than my rear!?
The rear was done at the same time as the front. I used the now discontinued longer (56"?) import springs, same lift height as the fronts. I believe my shackle angle is good, and can actually come forward (downtravel) far more. My 2" lift, cheap-ass, Downey rear, stock-length springs traveled farther! Maybe I just need a couple really hard runs to really break them in...


The front, at the shock, with a too-long for now bumpstop, compresses to
20", and extends to 27.25" (7.25" of travel at the shock)
The rear, at the shock and no bumpstops, compresses to 18.75, and extends to 23.75" (5" of travel at the shock)

PS. I talked to Oldbeercans today, and he was telling me he is using stock Dakota rears on his, and they flex like mad. Says they have a similar arch to Toy lift springs. (Dakotas are sprung-under)

 

[Boonie Buster]

Throw a big weight in the rear (seriously:kiss: ) and drive around with it in there. have you tried just lifting the rear of the truck up to see how much "straight" droop you get? To see how far you springs change your shackle angle.

 

[JThompson]

Throw a big weight in the rear (seriously:kiss: ) and drive around with it in there. have you tried just lifting the rear of the truck up to see how much "straight" droop you get? To see how far you springs change your shackle angle.

Actually, Aaron, I have hauled something with those springs. It was almost over-arching them. That is why I now have some rear squat! The fronts need this, too, I feel. Or some jumps! I have not done a straight droop test, although I am sure I will see no new data.

 

[pokey]

spring clamps:eeek:

 

[JThompson]

Is it cool if I took those off? I was asking my brother if I should remove those. If you want to see what springs I have, look at the Marlin rear, 4" long leaf springs, with the anti-wrap leaf on top.
That is my only concern... If I take off the spring clamps, they are all that is holding on that "anti-wrap" half leave on top of the spring pack. My springs ride very well, and I would hate to disrupt that. But... if it helps my articulation...

 

[pokey]

Is it cool if I took those off? I was asking my brother if I should remove those. If you want to see what springs I have, look at the Marlin rear, 4" long leaf springs, with the anti-wrap leaf on top.
That is my only concern... If I take off the spring clamps, they are all that is holding on that "anti-wrap" half leave on top of the spring pack. My springs ride very well, and I would hate to disrupt that. But... if it helps my articulation...

well if their the type that wrap all the way around then they defenetly limit your articulation but they also keep the road manners of the spring. I am not familiar with the marlin springs or the "anti wrap" feature. I use the yj type springs on my cj5(sprung over) and keep the front ones open and the rear closed. I find that just the softness of the rear springs is enough flex and it has better road manners with them closed. having the front ones open allows more flex for the front axle to hunt for traction and pull the rear (lighter) over.

Try driving it with them open and see how it changes always easy to bnd them back closed.

 

[datsunon40s]

oldbeercans rig flexes like crazy for leafs!!!!!!!

 

[JThompson]

So, I loosened us the clamps a little on my front packs. I didn't bend them all the way out, as I wanted to just take a look-see at how much it helped at all. It definitely let the springs droop a little bit more. Now to make them fully bent out, goalpost-style.:awesomework:

As far as the rear springs go, I wish it was easier to understand what I am talking about with the design of my rears. They are a full seven leaf pack, with a similar sized leaf going from the spring clamp up near the front (hard mount) back to just behind the u-bolt plate. It aids in axle wrap, as these springs are supposed to be soft!! I just don't think I can undo the clam on the rear spring, as it is the only thing keeping that half-leaf from peeling up. That is the clamps only purpose.

I am going to post a pic or link, whichever is easiest. I hope it works.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/suspension/rear_kit.htm

 

[JThompson]

You can also see the rear springs that are similar to mine on the Trail Gear website, halfway down this page....

http://www.trail-gear.com/leafsprings.html

 

[johnboy1]

thats the problem with toyotas, there is not enough weight in the back to make it flex well. i run 63' chebbies in the rear and 58" (i think) blazer rear springs in the front. gotta change the front springs though because i noticed i bent the main leaf on the left front. heres a pic of my setup.

 

[JThompson]

I don't see that you are getting much flex out of the rear in that pic, compared with your front. i am getting about the same.

My way cheap Downey 2" lift springs (standard length) flexed better than my new, highly touted springs... aarrghhhhhh

I made sure to run the rough roads with a little speed today, when I could. And if there was a large rock or stump at all in the trail, I ramped it, just to do what I can to loosen them up a bit.

 

[Toyotanut]

It's the nature of leaf springs in the back of a truck...there just isn't enough weight in the back to make the springs work. I've got issues with my set up as well. Personally, I am planning on ditching my rear leafs and linking the rear once I gather all the parts to cure my problem since I am dissatisfied with the way they are performing for me. If the performance isn't bothering your wheeling style and capabilities why try to mess with it?

 

[oldbeercans]

weight is definitly a problem with most yotas. that is percisely why i put a 22gal cell directly over my rear axle. my toll box is stuffed full of ****, along with the 350lbs of steel i added to the rear end of the truck. my spare is also mounted as far back as possible, while still keepin it tucked in the bed. as for the springs i am not sure how they will work on the trail but out in the field at my house they seem to be exactly what i was looking for. super soft and squishy ride and pre sure they will twist up nicely. how thick are the leaves, i was told to keep them as thin as possible and doesnt really matter how many leaves there are. it was nice meetin you the other day too.

 

[JThompson]

It's the nature of leaf springs in the back of a truck...there just isn't enough weight in the back to make the springs work. I've got issues with my set up as well. Personally, I am planning on ditching my rear leafs and linking the rear once I gather all the parts to cure my problem since I am dissatisfied with the way they are performing for me. If the performance isn't bothering your wheeling style and capabilities why try to mess with it?

Yeah, you are right. It just bothers me that I went from no flex in the front, and decent in the rear, to alot in the front, and undesireable flex in the rear. I personally just want them somewhat matched, as that is actually what makes you unstable offroad. Whether you have more flex in the front or the rear, it doesn't matter, just that your chassis is going one direction more than the other.

weight is definitly a problem with most yotas. that is percisely why i put a 22gal cell directly over my rear axle. my toll box is stuffed full of ****, along with the 350lbs of steel i added to the rear end of the truck. my spare is also mounted as far back as possible, while still keepin it tucked in the bed. as for the springs i am not sure how they will work on the trail but out in the field at my house they seem to be exactly what i was looking for. super soft and squishy ride and pre sure they will twist up nicely. how thick are the leaves, i was told to keep them as thin as possible and doesnt really matter how many leaves there are. it was nice meetin you the other day too.

How was Moab? My leaves are actually pretty thin. There are 7 of them in the pack, and the pack isn't any thicker than my previous packs, really.

 

[oldbeercans]

i havent gone yet. heres some pics of my setup. the front has a little more flex tahn the back. when lifting the right rear tire with a chain hoist i get 36 1/2" under the right rear tire with out any other tires lifting. when lifting the drivers front i get pretty much the same. i posted some new pics under my build if you want to check them out. :awesomework:

 

[JThompson]

i havent gone yet. heres some pics of my setup. the front has a little more flex tahn the back. when lifting the right rear tire with a chain hoist i get 36 1/2" under the right rear tire with out any other tires lifting. when lifting the drivers front i get pretty much the same. i posted some new pics under my build if you want to check them out. :awesomework:

Yeah, I saw your build thead. Looking good! Why did I think you went already? :eeek:

 

[Boonie Buster]

I get about 32" of flex out of my setup, that's why i was saying last night i want to reconfigure my front springs a little i think, I know the back flexes well with the 4" Skyjacker BII springs i have:awesomework: I love those things, I know that stock BII springs will do just as well...

 

[johnboy1]

I don't see that you are getting much flex out of the rear in that pic, compared with your front. i am getting about the same.

it may not seem like much but thats all 4 tires solid on the ground. it i couldve found something higher at work i wouldve been on it.

 

[oldbeercans]

i havent gone yet. heres some pics of my setup. the front has a little more flex tahn the back. when lifting the right rear tire with a chain hoist i get 36 1/2" under the right rear tire with out any other tires lifting. when lifting the drivers front i get pretty much the same. i posted some new pics under my build if you want to check them out. :awesomework:

oops sorry bout the pics. forgot. you can check'em out under my build.