Reiter- for those who give a rip.

[Binder]

How many of us have actually read the SEPA documents?
http://www.dnr.wa.gov/ResearchScience/Topics/SEPANonProject/Pages/amp_sepa_nonpro_reiter_jan.aspx
Yeah it's mostly boring stuff with some interesting and important facts mixed in......

establish an upper limit for vehicle width and/or vehicle size.

Whay kind of critters are known to be there now? What kind of critters are the land being reserved for a future habitat?
There are still many question left to be answered and a long ways to go with the SEPA process but we may all want to keep a eye on it before it's too late.:;

 

[crash2]

I have treid reading it a few times but it turns all blurry and my interest goes out the window.

As for critters I have never heard anything specific but those types of comments don't really shock me with how our state is.

 

[CHOP SHOP]

There was a critter that once populated that land in large numbers.

That species has since been endangered, and reintroduction to the area has not been embraced too well.

Seems these critters have relocated to less populated areas now and no longer look to the reiter area for habitat

:;

 

[Binder]

I have treid reading it a few times but it turns all blurry and my interest goes out the window.

As for critters I have never heard anything specific but those types of comments don't really shock me with how our state is.

Right now there's a large area of Reiter reserved for spotted owls even though they're not there. This keeps us out of that area. The rest of Reiter is left for possibly reservation of some Merlot (sp) critter. I don't know exavtly what that means but I would bet if that reservation goes into effect Reiter would be night wheeling only.

 

[crash2]

Right now there's a large area of Reiter reserved for spotted owls even though they're not there. This keeps us out of that area. The rest of Reiter is left for possibly reservation of some Merlot (sp) critter. I don't know exavtly what that means but I would bet if that reservation goes into effect Reiter would be night wheeling only.

I wonder if its some sort of mandate that with every acre of motorized there has to be a certian amount for habitat set aside?

That would kind of make sense.

 

[beyatch]

Right now there's a large area of Reiter reserved for spotted owls even though they're not there. This keeps us out of that area. The rest of Reiter is left for possibly reservation of some Merlot (sp) critter. I don't know exavtly what that means but I would bet if that reservation goes into effect Reiter would be night wheeling only.

it's this guy:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marbled_Murrelet

They are the species that "may or may not" be in the area, but find the elevation of your favorite wheeling spot "desirable". Same thing with Evan's Creek. NO one has ever actually seen one, but they might consider nesting there, therefore causing "seasonal closures" to take place. Personally,I think it's a load of CRAP. In the SEPA papers it's the "___ologists way of getting rid of YOU! Welcome to the world we live in.

Flame on!

 

[Binder]

I wonder if its some sort of mandate that with every acre of motorized there has to be a certian amount for habitat set aside?

That would kind of make sense.

I don't know Mike. I did know about the spotted owl area but didn't know about the murrelet....It's in the checklist paperwork and it reads to me like the area is being reserved for future use of this critter. One step form keeping us out.:booo:

 

[Binder]

it's this guy:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marbled_Murrelet

They are the species that "may or may not" be in the area, but find the elevation of your favorite wheeling spot "desirable". Same thing with Evan's Creek. NO one has ever actually seen one, but they might consider nesting there, therefore causing "seasonal closures" to take place. Personally,I think it's a load of CRAP. In the SEPA papers it's the "___ologists way of getting rid of YOU! Welcome to the world we live in.

Flame on!

Yeah I 100% agree it's a load of crap! I heard something about this at Evans but never really knew the deal...I'm sure the biologists are behind it somehow but how do we fight back? I don't see why the DNR couldn't reserve a different property for this critter?

 

[beyatch]

How do we get around it?......hmmmm great question. I consulted with a professional- my husband reads these SEPA documents on a daily basis (Engineer, PE and thinks he knows it all) and said "good luck if it's a protected species" Pokey thinks there is a way around it at Evan's Creek, but I'm not so sure. Anytime you get a Permit to do any type of work the biologist, ecologist and scientist does a study....they usually find something like this to "preserve" the area. Most of the time it's salmon.

 

[Binder]

How do we get around it?......hmmmm great question. I consulted with a professional- my husband reads these SEPA documents on a daily basis (Engineer, PE and thinks he knows it all) and said "good luck if it's a protected species" Pokey thinks there is a way around it at Evan's Creek, but I'm not so sure. Anytime you get a Permit to do any type of work the biologist, ecologist and scientist does a study....they usually find something like this to "preserve" the area. Most of the time it's salmon.

It is a protected species but the species isn't actually there. It reads to me like they're not protecting the species but a future home for them. Sure I'll buy it that if/ when the species does come back in population they will need habitat to populate but who determines where exacly that is? I'm sure the state is required to save a predetermined area of land that meets a certain criteria so lets find some other land that fits the bill and put them there.:awesomework: Then all we have to do is make Japerry stay out of it by putting up a gate!:flipoff:

 

[billulsund]

That Wiki page about the Marbled Murrelet is an interesting read. This is what it said about the bird's habitat.

"Marbled murrelets are coastal birds that occur mainly near saltwater within 1.2 miles (2 km) of shore. However, marbled murrelets have been found up to 59 miles (80 km) inland in Washington, 35 miles (56 km) inland in Oregon, 22 miles (37 km) inland in northern California, and 11 miles (18 km) inland in central California. Over 90% of all marbled murrelet observations in the northern Washington Cascades were within 37 miles (60 km) of the coast. In Oregon, marbled murrelets are observed most often within 12 miles (20 km) of the ocean. Many marbled murrelets regularly visit coastal lakes. Most lakes used by marbled murrelets are within 12 miles (20 km) of the ocean, but a few birds have been found at lakes as far inland as 47 miles (75 km). All lakes used by marbled murrelets occur within potential nesting habitat."

I am not sure about Reiter, but looking at a map Evans Creek appears to be around 40+ miles from any saltwater (commencement bay or Nisqually Wildlife Refuge). If 90% of Marbled Murrelets in WA were found within 39 miles of the coast then why are we being forced out of Evans for a bird where there is a 90% likelyhood that it will not even nest that far inland?

 

[Binder]

That Wiki page about the Marbled Murrelet is an interesting read. This is what it said about the bird's habitat.

"Marbled murrelets are coastal birds that occur mainly near saltwater within 1.2 miles (2 km) of shore. However, marbled murrelets have been found up to 59 miles (80 km) inland in Washington, 35 miles (56 km) inland in Oregon, 22 miles (37 km) inland in northern California, and 11 miles (18 km) inland in central California. Over 90% of all marbled murrelet observations in the northern Washington Cascades were within 37 miles (60 km) of the coast. In Oregon, marbled murrelets are observed most often within 12 miles (20 km) of the ocean. Many marbled murrelets regularly visit coastal lakes. Most lakes used by marbled murrelets are within 12 miles (20 km) of the ocean, but a few birds have been found at lakes as far inland as 47 miles (75 km). All lakes used by marbled murrelets occur within potential nesting habitat."

I am not sure about Reiter, but looking at a map Evans Creek appears to be around 40+ miles from any saltwater (commencement bay or Nisqually Wildlife Refuge). If 90% of Marbled Murrelets in WA were found within 39 miles of the coast then why are we being forced out of Evans for a bird where there is a 90% likelyhood that it will not even nest that far inland?

That's an excellent question.:awesomework: So lets find some more suitable land closer to salt water that the DNR can reserve for bird hunting er I mean habitat.:redneck:

 

[beyatch]

If they find evidence of the species (feather, nest or the actual bird) that's all they need.

I can't remember if this was the case at Evan's. I was so frustrated at the FS meeting I blocked alot of things out. I think I lost my mind when they handed out an info sheet on their proposed study and it started out with the words "There are many other places for offroad vehicles in Washington...." I am taking this out of context but the verbiage is almost correct.

 

[beyatch]

That Wiki page about the Marbled Murrelet is an interesting read. This is what it said about the bird's habitat.

"Marbled murrelets are coastal birds that occur mainly near saltwater within 1.2 miles (2 km) of shore. However, marbled murrelets have been found up to 59 miles (80 km) inland in Washington, 35 miles (56 km) inland in Oregon, 22 miles (37 km) inland in northern California, and 11 miles (18 km) inland in central California. Over 90% of all marbled murrelet observations in the northern Washington Cascades were within 37 miles (60 km) of the coast. In Oregon, marbled murrelets are observed most often within 12 miles (20 km) of the ocean. Many marbled murrelets regularly visit coastal lakes. Most lakes used by marbled murrelets are within 12 miles (20 km) of the ocean, but a few birds have been found at lakes as far inland as 47 miles (75 km). All lakes used by marbled murrelets occur within potential nesting habitat."

I am not sure about Reiter, but looking at a map Evans Creek appears to be around 40+ miles from any saltwater (commencement bay or Nisqually Wildlife Refuge). If 90% of Marbled Murrelets in WA were found within 39 miles of the coast then why are we being forced out of Evans for a bird where there is a 90% likelyhood that it will not even nest that far inland?

You will be hard pressed to find "old forrest growth" much closer to saltwater. Thank urban sprawl for that one. Therefore the species has expanded it's search for nesting areas.

 

[Binder]

If they find evidence of the species (feather, nest or the actual bird) that's all they need.

They/ we don't have that.

 

[beyatch]

They/ we don't have that.

I guess you would have to ask people in the know.. I found this online though regarding Endangered Species

Legal Status/Protection
*Endangered Species Act, **CITES Appendix II

*The Endangered Species Act requires the US federal government to identify species threatened with extinction, identify habitat they need to survive, and help protect both. In doing so, the Act works to ensure the basic health of our natural ecosystems and protect the legacy of conservation we leave to our children and grandchildren.

all they have to do is Identify habitat

 

[Binder]

I guess you would have to ask people in the know.. I found this online though regarding Endangered Species

Legal Status/Protection
*Endangered Species Act, **CITES Appendix II

*The Endangered Species Act requires the US federal government to identify species threatened with extinction, identify habitat they need to survive, and help protect both. In doing so, the Act works to ensure the basic health of our natural ecosystems and protect the legacy of conservation we leave to our children and grandchildren.

all they have to do is Identify habitat

Good to know. I'll do some more reading up on this later. :cheer:

 

[zukkev]

If they found a feather, or something to that nature, hell-it could've been blown there in a windstorm the day before they went in search of any evidence, but I guess that's all that needs to happen...
In response to bill's query, it only takes a very minute % of possibility for endangered/protected species to exist in a given area for the powers that be to err on the side of caution and side that direction in their decisions....

 

[boardbysled]

I can't remember if this was the case at Evan's. I was so frustrated at the FS meeting I blocked alot of things out. I think I lost my mind when they handed out an info sheet on their proposed study and it started out with the words "There are many other places for offroad vehicles in Washington...." I am taking this out of context but the verbiage is almost correct.

Bill Lider is my guess. He has a hard on for these birds, and all birds in general.

 

[billulsund]

*The Endangered Species Act requires the US federal government to identify species threatened with extinction, identify habitat they need to survive, and help protect both. In doing so, the Act works to ensure the basic health of our natural ecosystems and protect the legacy of conservation we leave to our children and grandchildren.

This is the section that gets me and brings me to part 2 of my argument. How are we destroying habitat for these birds? They nest in trees and we wheel on the ground. I have yet to see a wheeling rig destroy or knock down an old growth tree. I can understand forbidding logging these areas as that would obviously destroy habitat. How is driving through an already esablished trail going to disturb these birds at all? It can't be the presence of people they are worried about because I believe you can still hike through these areas during the closure. I guess these birds wont nest if they can hear a motor running or something? I know that trying to understand the logic behind these closures is like . It just seems ridiculous to me that a popular recreational area would be shut down because of the possibility that we might be disturbing the habitat for a bird where 10% or less of the local bird population may or may not be nesting there. :wtf: