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Revolver Shackles

JEEPFREEK1

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Joined
Aug 27, 2006
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344
Location
Redmond, WA
Spring leaf suspension setup.. Revolver shackles any help?

Anyone have any experience? Are they good? do they make leaf sprung vehicles articulate better as they are touted to? What about any street performance?

I have a '95 YJ with SOA and a shackle reversal.. I'm looking to do something about my current suspension as the leaves are somewhat worn out and I think I need new shocks.. (Tooo much bouncy bouncy ont he freeway)..

I still need to build a tranction bar, so I'm kind of curious on how the revolvers would work in the mix.

Thanks!
 
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2pwrlftrs4u said:
dont think that they'd help with the bounce.... but i am sure crash will chime in, i hear he's been running them for quite some time now. :D

:flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff:

If I had a leaf sprung rig and broke a shackle and somebody gave me one of those revolvers--I still would not run them--esp. on a short wheelbase rig....
 
Dear JEEPFREEK;
OK, here is the lowdown on Revolvers. First, the flex they provide is pretty much useless because it's unsupported. In other words, it's unsprung weight, which doesn't to ANYTHING to aid traction. To clarify this statement, imagine a front tire that is 12" off of the ground. It's not doing any good because it's not biting into anything, right? It's not providing any traction whatsoever because it's just hanging in space. Now, take that same tire that was 12" off of the ground, only now rest it on the ground by only it's own weight. You still won't achieve any usable traction because at this point the tire on the opposite side of the axle isn't providing enough upwards force to it's opposite mate. So the tire that is just resting on the ground will only spin and burn rubber a bit since it's not getting any downward force applied to it. That being stated, there REALLY IS a GREAT benefit to Revolvers, but NOBODY seems to realize it.

Revolvers greatly reduce or eliminate torsional(twisting) loads on the shackle ends of the leafsprings. This benefit alone will help to extend the life of the mainleaves. This does not mean very much to a stock height or nearly stock height rig, but once it starts getting taller, the leafpacks suffer exponentially from torsional loads. Once you are in the neighborhood of 5" to 6" of lift then you can reasonably expect spring life to be reduced by 50% to 75% over stock height springs. Revolvers are excellent products for reducing this and they can keep your leafpacks healthy for years to come. Why nobody EVER mentions this little fact is a mystery to me.
Your leaf loving friend;
LAMAR
 
2pwrlftrs4u said:
dont think that they'd help with the bounce.... but i am sure crash will chime in, i hear he's been running them for quite some time now. :D

no.. I knew they wouldn't help with that.. Shocks do though..

I only mentioned the bouncy=shocks thing since I'll probably do this all (springs, shocks, shackle fix all at the same time)
 
Dear group;
Hey, I was only trying to dispell some rumores about Revolver shackles is all. We were building a bastardized variety of Revlovers years before the current ones were introduced to the market and they all worked OK but even though they will reduce or eliminate torsional loads they still are NOT the best solution to the problem. The reason for this is price. Revolvers cost upwards to $100 apiece. Multiply that by 4 and now you're staring at a very expensive solution, friends. An even better (read this as CHEAPER) solution to solving the torsional load problem is to use different configured spring eyes. Something like 90% of all passenger rig leafpsrings have the eyes bent in the normal configuration, which is the eye is formed by heating the end of the mainleaf then bending it inwards towards the center of the leaf in a tight loop. This works very well on stock height rigs, but the springpacks tend to be stiffer and more prone to torsional fatique.

A better spring eye is the centered eye, in which the eye of the mainleaf is directly outboard of the leaf instead of being above it as in the normal eye configuration. This configuration reduces torsional loading to practially nil and the leafpacks tend to be more silky and flex better overall.

A third type of spring eye (which is favorite, btw) is the reverse, or goofy, eyed spring. Instead of the spring eye being formed with the end going towards the center of the leaf, the eyes are formed opposite and they are formed away frm the leaf. This type of eye configuration is ideal for SOA rigs because at around maximum uptravel the spring is completely flat instead of inversely arched.

Leafpsrings can be produced using the same eye type on each end of the leaf or by mixing any 2 of the eyes mentioned above in combination to produce a truly custom and awesomely flexible leafspring. I don't care who ya are, ya just just can't make a set of c**lsprings in your garage, folks. I know, I've tried.
Your leaf building friend;
LAMAR
 
Lamar said:
Dear JEEPFREEK;
OK, here is the lowdown on Revolvers. First, the flex they provide is pretty much useless because it's unsupported. In other words, it's unsprung weight, which doesn't to ANYTHING to aid traction. To clarify this statement, imagine a front tire that is 12" off of the ground. It's not doing any good because it's not biting into anything, right? It's not providing any traction whatsoever because it's just hanging in space. Now, take that same tire that was 12" off of the ground, only now rest it on the ground by only it's own weight. You still won't achieve any usable traction because at this point the tire on the opposite side of the axle isn't providing enough upwards force to it's opposite mate. So the tire that is just resting on the ground will only spin and burn rubber a bit since it's not getting any downward force applied to it. That being stated, there REALLY IS a GREAT benefit to Revolvers, but NOBODY seems to realize it.

Revolvers greatly reduce or eliminate torsional(twisting) loads on the shackle ends of the leafsprings. This benefit alone will help to extend the life of the mainleaves. This does not mean very much to a stock height or nearly stock height rig, but once it starts getting taller, the leafpacks suffer exponentially from torsional loads. Once you are in the neighborhood of 5" to 6" of lift then you can reasonably expect spring life to be reduced by 50% to 75% over stock height springs. Revolvers are excellent products for reducing this and they can keep your leafpacks healthy for years to come. Why nobody EVER mentions this little fact is a mystery to me.
Your leaf loving friend;
LAMAR

Hmmm.. well I can definatly relate the relate to wanting to have my leafs last a bit longer.. mine are only about 5 years old and already all sorts of bent to interesting curves. I think the only reason i've gotten by on them this long is that for 2 years the jeep was mainly on a Daily driver.. and 2, I have 6 leafs in the pack and they are stock height packs. I'm also running with out a traction bar.. (which i've begun to notice my rear hopping on certain obstacles).

So.. the debate continues.. is the loss of positive pressure on the drooping tire worth the benefit of having the lives of your springs increased?

My thought is that if the tire droops say 6" with the revolvers to just barely touch the ground.. wouldn't the tire then just be 3+ inches above the ground with a normal shackle? At that stage, the drooping tire would still have no traction whilst the other side would continue to have all the traction in both instances.

I probably shouldn't have pulled the rest of my suspension issues into this question as it seems to have detracted away from the main issue at hand that the revolvers may help or not.

I only wanted to share as much info as possible to accomodate a more informed answer.

Currently, my suspension is setup like below.. (yes, i know I'm a tard when it comes to MS paint. I didn't feel like going out and taking a picture of my jeep while I was in my joe boxers.. people would stare funny at me.)

susp.jpg


the problem is that the shackls (at least in front). I think are too long as the shackle already seems extended and therefore all articulation comes from the springs.. (and coincedentally, most off road bumps are absorbed by my passengers and me instead of the suspension). while I wheeled like this for a while blissfully unaware, my fiancee has a TJ and whilst driving said TJ.. I started to realise the allure of the coils.. (please help me lamar).

I would just like my suspension to work well offroad (articulation) but still be able to drive it on road as my daily driver..

It's also appearant in these two pics as you can there isn't much difference in movement between full droop and compression.

Mud-Mud.jpg


mlc02scott1.jpg
 
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Dear JEEPFREEK;
Wow, yet another misinformed notion about leafpacks, my friend! It seems that everyone thinks shackle length can somehow magically aid or hinder articulation. Nothing could be further from the truth. The fact is that shackles don't do squat for articulation. The reason why shackles are there is because as the leafpack travels upwards and downwards it's eye to eye length contracts or expands, respectively. Without shackles to compensate for this there'd be no articulation whatsoever and the leafpacks would become just solid hunks of steel. The only time you should use a longer shackle is when you increase the at-rest length of the leafpack. The additional shackle length will be necessary in order to maximixe the leafsprings extended length.
To attempt to answer your question though. IMVHO if you can purchase a set of Revolvers on the cheap then yes, they'd be worth installing on your rig, however if you need to purchase them over the counter, then no, they are not the most cost effective solution.
Your friend;
LAMAR
 
Please teach.. I'm listening.. and needing to learn..

I have a goal in mind.. and would like to know how to get there.. my current leaf system.. just isn't cutting it..

It may just be that I need to replace the leaf packs, and go back to stock length shackles..

The leaves I have are 6 leaf on all 4's.. and I know that the spring "keeper".. (hunge of metal folded over to keep them clamped) might be hindering my articulation..

I'm certainly all ears for suggestions on what to do.. When I do the spring swap, I plan to put in a traction bar in the rear at the same time.

We can take this to a PM, IM, or email as need be, but I'm also willing to just leave it out here so we can all talk about options and whatnot.
 
Dear JEEPFREEK;
the spring clips are placed on the leafpacks to keep the springs located on top of each other. And yes, the spring clips do tend to reduce articulation by a large degree. One of our old Indian tricks was to spread out the keepers with a large prybar so the individual leaves would fan out a bit.
I've since stopped using clips made from folded over 1/4" stock and I've started using keepers made from 2" tall 1/4" stock in a U shape. The bottom of the U is riveted to the end of the leaves and instead it being folded over, I insert a 1/4" diameter bolt through both upper ends of the U. I then place a steel tube inside of the U to keep the U from collapsing.
Now the leaves achieve maximum downward articulation without fanning out. If the leaves are allowed to fan out to too great a degree they can induce body roll, therefore it is ideal to keep the leaves located on top of each other while at the same time permitting them to open up fully. This is where the U shaped style spring clips become advantageous.
Your friend;
LAMAR
 
I'm surprised that no one has brought up the problem that can occur when Revolvers unload. If you're going down or up a steep incline (depending on which end your revolvers are on), the suspension can all of a sudden unload thus changing the COG and possible leading to endo.
 
Lamar said:
Why nobody EVER mentions this little fact is a mystery to me.
Probably because nobody wants to pay the price for it, which is having to run revolvers. Besides, it only relieves the stress on the shackle end. Remember, an ordinary shackle provides its own moderate relief to that stress as well. Meanwhile, the other end of the leaf gets beat to **** by torsional stress and the shackle, revolver or not, doesn't do a thing for it.
 
Lamar said:
Wow, yet another misinformed notion about leafpacks, my friend! It seems that everyone thinks shackle length can somehow magically aid or hinder articulation. Nothing could be further from the truth. The fact is that shackles don't do squat for articulation.
Not true!

While I would agree that shackle angle doesn't provide a huge difference in flex, there is some effect. Enough that I've spent some time coming up with optimal angles and lengths.

The trouble is, a shackle angle that gives good flex also works against the spring on compression, effectively reducing its spring rate.

Oh well, what I've learned is that when it comes to leaf springs, you just can't have it all.
 
This whole revolver conversation comes up about every 2 months.

I have them on my yota. HAve had them on for a few years. I like em.
 
Revolvers are absolutely useless. Anyone who thinks they have a advantage has been wheeling on flat ground in Bolivia or not at all. As for relieving the stress on the spring- Every time I have broken a leaf spring or seen one broke they always seem to break on the fixed end. What's been the experience of the rest of you? Don't spend any money on this junk and if you have some given to you turn around and give them to someone you don't like.:; :stirpot:
 

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