Talk me out of being my own general contractor on a house build. Ready go!

customcj7 · Feb 14, 2017

So, here it is, that moment in life where you can either pass the buck, or pull the pin on the grenade and see what happens.

I'm at a threshold. I've moved to Bham recently, and am renting a house now. In all honesty it's a nice house, but no yard, a spec of a garage and damn nosey neighbors on top of me. I'm in hell.

I've purchased 3 acres of land nearby and want to build. However I'm getting some very hefty build costs with some worse percentages going to the contractors. I'm talking 40-50k just going to the contractor. With the purchase of the land, that puts me well over my comfortable level of total investment in this. I don't want to spend $50 dollars on something that will only appraise for $35, ya know?

So I'm wondering if I'm just dumb enough to think I can handle this. I've dealt with subs and contractors before doing my last shop, but not a house. And I'm no builder. But I'm also no idiot. I've dealt with large projects before and contract negotiations and dealings more than I can count in my career. But a part of me thinks, with the amount of time I have (a lot), I could save a ton taking my time getting this done at a more casual pace with subs versus running for a 6-month home. Plus not only can I save some money on the GC side, I can do some of my own custom items throughout. I do understand that there is a good chance my savings might get eaten alive by not getting the same cost benefits that a GC would get, but that will fall on my due diligence.

I've got the ability to go by the lot daily, twice daily if needed. 3 times would be possible. But a part of me can't help but wonder, how much can I save really doing it myself as the GC? Is it worth it?

So there are many of you who have been through building a home, some on your own, some with a builder. Thoughts, insights, ridicule? Yes, I'm cheap, I pinch my pennies like you can't imagine. I'll spend good money when it's necessary, but if it's not, you're not getting a dime out of me. I'll gladly work my ass off to save money. I've done it on almost every project I have worked on. Boats, jeeps, garages, home projects, etc.

money_pit_yj · Feb 14, 2017

If you do it on your own make sure you work with an architect and get master plans. A friend just got done with his and it was a nightmare because they had engineering plans, basically and elevation view and where doors and pipes were. It was a mess. He tried to save 3K and it cost him 10K in setbacks and redos. His deal was that it was all about time, you are basically running the jobsite and have to give them answers when they have questions. No answero, no trabjo. He is not very well organized and doesnt handle things when plans go awry.

BLGXJ · Feb 14, 2017

What is your time worth? How flexible is your work schedule? Can you leave at a moments notice to resolve a problem with a sub? Can you handle a sub regularly being late to arranged meetings? Do you have a good network in your area, for references for potential subs?

I watched my dad go through it in 2008 or so and those are just a few things I saw him deal with. i believe he went through about 3 painters before he found one that would do the work when he was supposed to, same with concrete crews. He was also at the house daily during the build after work to check progress and do the portions he chose not to sub out.

customcj7 · Feb 14, 2017

Money Pit brought up a good point. I do have a full set of detailed plans. The other perk is that he is one of the most common architects in the area for normal type homes (non-custom). Every builder I talked to knew his work and his plans and was happy that was my choice since his plans are easy to follow.

Time. I do have a career, but if I had to, I can drop everything and go most of the time, but not all the time. My plan would be drive by in the morning and at after work daily at least, if not more. It's about a 30 minute drive from my office though, so mid-day would be tough.

Would game camera's hidden in the woods be frowned upon? laughing1

5BrothersFabrication · Feb 14, 2017

I have nothing to add here but a big ass :dblthumb:

for you going for it. Good luck with the build, man!

KPatterson · Feb 14, 2017

Following

lowbudgetjunk · Feb 14, 2017

I built a commercial building and GC'd it. It was a little over 350k build and it appraised over 400. If you are fastidious person that has the patience of Job and a flexible schedule; I say go for it. Keep tabs on consumables, have things bid by the job, not by the hour and be ready for a headache until it's done. Once finished though, you can take pride in knowing how everything was done and that you were the lynch pin for getting it done.

earls69 · Feb 14, 2017

I would look into the Amish or Mennonite they do good work for half the price they dried my house in and I did the rest or had the major jobs contracted out and saved a ton

1TONTJ · Feb 14, 2017

Just finished our new house and I contracted myself, wouldn't do it any other way. You save $50K easily right off the top. But, I'm a construction superintendent so it just came naturally. It's hard to recommend it to others not knowing their experience or capacity. I guess my only recommendation would be to try and find an old school builder who likes to do a lot of the work himself as opposed to sub contracting every little task out to someone different. My builder started with a shovel and ended with a paint brush, just him and his 4 guys. I only had a handful of other subs doing work.

Big David · Feb 14, 2017

A guy I know did this. He worked a 3 day weekend shift all the while.
He had to constantly stay on their ass not to cut corners & do the upgrades as agreed to. He was on the phone a lot with the subs bosses to get them back on track. It was a full time job.

jccarter1 · Feb 14, 2017

I work Constuction for a living and there is no way I would GC a house my self unless I did it full time to much headache and the GC will save you money on bids bc of work relationships they have, that you don't If you have free time then yea I would do it but if not just find a good GC or take lots of time to plan out and increase your build time and do It yourself I know it sucks to pay someone to do something that you could do but hopefully they can save you that much just by getting good bids on the job and good timelines

5onrocks · Feb 14, 2017

I'm not being ugly but if you don't have a pretty good general knowledge of home construction, you will likely end up with a sub par product that cost just as much if not more. A drive by in the morning and late evening is not enough time on the job site unless you have really good, trusted sub contractors. I'm a project manager for an industrial construction company but I grew up around residential construction. It's kind of like all of these DIY shows on tv.... it seems really easy and anyone can do it. Most of those projects end up looking like crap for most people or cost twice as much when they have to pay a pro to come fix it.
Are you knowledgeable about local building codes, inspections, etc. I don't want to turn you away from doing it, just realize it's a lot more work than it seems.

halcat · Feb 15, 2017

I have built a lot of homes and like jccarter1 said about subs gouging you on their price because they will never work for you again. I've bid homes and the owners said "that's to much I'll do it my self, you know any good subs". they use my subs, the subs charge him half again as much as me and two years later he finishes his home. He said he saved 50 grand. Now 50 grand is a lot of money, I did NOT have 50 grand to my part figured in, but he quit his job to do this and probally could have made that much at work and let me built his home and been in sooner and been the same money in the end. This is just one occasion. There had been a lot of people who have done this successfully, but also a lot of bad stories. listen to this, their is a lot of people on this thread that have good advice and a lot that will comment on things that are important to them but are not really that important to the total project. If you do this yourself, hire a good contractor for an afternoon to help you position your house correctly on your land. Get the foundation the right height for drainage, rotate the house correctly off the property lines, other houses, so the appearances looks natural. I can spot every house in every neighborhood that there was not a reputable builder involved in this. You will not want to go home every night after work for the next 30 years to a house that sticks out like a sore thumb and squeegee the water out of the garage after a rain. If you get this done, no matter how much you have in it or how long it takes. You'll like it in the end. One more thing, no matter how much something costs, if you like it, you will eventually forget the price.............no matter how good of a deal you get and not like it at the end....you will NEVER be satisfied with the product. My .02, good luck.

e4cutler · Feb 15, 2017

I moved into my house a year ago and debated on doing this same thing when shopping for a builder. Like you, I already owned the land and in the end I decided I wouldn't have the time to dedicate to it and didn't want the headaches. My cousin on the other hand did exactly what you're thinking of doing and he doesn't regret it at all. It did take longer for his home to be completed but, in the end he was happy with his decision. On another note, I can't speak to construction loans in Alabama but in Texas, the banks don't want to do a construction loan for more than 1 year. So basically if you can't get started & finished within 1 year, you better plan on paying for it out of pocket. Again, I have no idea if it's the same where you are but it's definitely another piece of the puzzle that you should check out before making a final decision. Congratulations on the new home! :dblthumb:

CHASMAN9 · Feb 15, 2017

I've been in the business residentially and commercially for 30+ years and all I can say is in the end you will end up either: a drug addict, an alcoholic, divorced, funny farm, or in jail. Here's some things to consider when delegating your daily time. Finding and meeting with vendors/ subcontractors and getting the correct/ best pricing and locking them in with a contract price and start date. Purchasing things such as permits and meeting with officials ON THEIR time, not yours. Setting start/ finish dates for deliveries and meeting with subs to tell them what you want. Remember that plans are only as good as the person whom drew them up and how you react when someone doesn't understand them or they just do not work like the mighty pen has drawn it. You have to lay out each and every location for wiring/ plumbing/ HVAC and other utilities. The simplest of things can go wrong and make you think "WTF were they thinking?" Most of your time will be spent on the phone trying to locate the subcontractor/ materials for the job. Then take into account every nickle and dime that has either gone to paying for the material or subcontractor. Book keeping is at least 50% of your time. Fit and finishes, are they what how you imagined it to look? Now try and meet with the person responsible for it? Cleaning up of the site after the slobs have left their mess laying around for the racoons to cleanup for you. If someone steps on the proverbial "rattlesnake" (board with nail sticking out) and they come after you to pay for their booboo.

I am no longer in the building business but still am in construction and yes I have had a very lucrative career in the industry and would not change it for the world as I can look back and say that I am still friends with most all of my clients, both commercially and residentially. I can drive by these days and say I built that and be happy knowing I accomplished it and that I have NEVER been sued by any of my clients. This is not meant to scare you away from building your house but to enlighten you on what to expect day to day if you so choose to take it over and do it yourself.

halcat · Feb 15, 2017

And everything he said, and more.

customcj7 · Feb 15, 2017

Like I said guys, won't hurt my feelings. I'd rather find out fast that I'm insane versus go too far to find out.

I thought about some of your points this morning, and ironically I see them here now.

1) FInding good subs. Unfortunately as I'm new in the area, my usual contact list that I had in TN is useless, I'm at ground level with ZERO contacts. Not good.
2) Pricing, as many of you have stated, a GC that uses the same subs will probably get a better bid number than I would for being a one-timer, and for the simple fact that they may know they can gouge me because I may not know better, and they'd be right.
3) I may not always catch a price gouge and end up paying the same as I would as if I had a contractor do it from the start, with less headache.
4) Getting the lot layout, septic, concrete, basement, then framing, then roofing, then exterior, windows, doors, electrical, plumbing, interior work, insulation all those details go back to number 1, I don't know good from bad down here.
5) Liability, while I try not to lean on this, it's a worse case scenario. If a sub royally screws the pooch on an epic level, what's my recourse for repair or fixing it? If I do it, it's on me, and it's one of those "lesson learned" things. If a GC uses a sub that doesn't pass inspection, or something else that costs money to redo it, that's on him. As well as long term liability if something comes up down the road.

I really want to do this to not only save money, but to learn as well, and have some direct control over more of the build. But I think I may be trying to bite off way too much. I appreciate the feedback guys, really. I've tackled a ton of other things that I didn't know jack squat about in the past, but not something that will have this much affect on me and my family. I think I'm going to have to keep working on getting a GC I can trust to get the job done for me.

Yellowyj · Feb 15, 2017

I am the civil manager for a commercial GC in Birmingham, and currently we are seeing the cost of subs rising due to the amount of work available for them. I also do some CM type work for developers in the residential market and there are more houses being built in the area now then the past several years which probably doesn't help you cost wise either. What I have been seeing across the board is an increase in available projects/work for subs which has lead them to be a little more selective and given them and opportunity to name their price for work. The multi-family market has blown up the past couple years in the Birmingham area as well which could also be contributing factor to your overall pricing as well. Currently lumber is high, even though you can't hardly get ride of standing timber and many yards have timber sitting (and don't even talk about getting rid of wood chips). On many of jobs we have seen a recent increase in the cost from electrical subs.

In general, over the past 8-9 years the subs that were able to hang on and stay in business have been a little more hesitant to grow and there haven't been as many new subs start up so as the work demand has increased the sub markets have been slower to grow and has in a sense created somewhat of a shortage. To compound this there is an overall shortage of skilled trade workers across the board. There are other factors that affect market and sub pricing as well, but these are some of the contributing factors we have noticed over the past several years. We specialize in commercial retail projects and work all over the country, but try to stay focused in the southeast market.

Some of the larger residential subcontractors also work in the multi-family market. My gut feeling is the multi-family market, at least in Birmingham, will die off to large extent over the next year or so, so that should help bring the pricing back down some. Many of the multi-family projects we have been looking at on the front end with developers have seemed to died or are on hold for now or being restructured. Many of the multi-family developments that have recently been completed are still vacant, so those deals are not as lucrative for developers right now. So might would be worth holding out for a slow down to get a little better pricing. I would at least talk to your builders to see what they are seeing/hearing with their subs and materials.

I would agree that it is very time consuming and the best way would be to have someone representing you or the GC at the site when work is ongoing. Basically you will need to baby sit the subs and suppliers and keep everyone on their toes. On our projects we typically have a minimum of a full time onsite superintendent and a project manager at the office that also visits the site frequently. Doesn't matter if it is a few hundred thousand dollar project or a multi million dollar project. As the project size gets larger or the schedule gets shorter then the number of superintendents and project managers/assistants increase. Currently the owner of our company is building a new house and we have a superintendent onsite and a project manager here at the office working on his house, but part of the big struggle with his is getting his ideas/design out of his mind and making it become a reality so that adds a whole other level of challenges. My dad built his on house 15 years ago as his on GC and pretty well dropped his other work while he built his house (at the time he owned his on construction company as a side job to being a full time fireman where he worked 24 hours and was off for 48 hours).

Yellowyj · Feb 15, 2017

One other thing to consider is the potential for theft of materials and tools and vandalism. Most GC's carry Builders Risk Insurance to cover these things as well as other things that aren't covered by other insurance policies. Many times minor items are absorbed, but you can get hit with some hefty expenses if you materials walk off. Not having someone representing you or the GC onsite throughout the day increases these risk in my opinion.