Thanks for KOH 2011 from Gipson-Dixon Racing

TreeClimber · Feb 18, 2011

benw said:
Because they physically won't fit.

What the heck are you talking about a 'non-steer front end' and a 'steering rear-end'? Do you realize there is no difference between front and rear gears and front and rear housings (other than steering components)? Larry has upside down Ford 9" axles front and rear. The only thing that makes them a front end or a rear end is which end of the vehicle they are in.

I was referring to the fact that he (should) have an offset rear housing, and (should) have a centered front housing.

However the only time I saw it finished was at the swap meet last year or two ago, and candidly I don't remember it that well.

But if they are "no difference between the front and rear housings" then why won't they physically fit? My D60s take the exact same Detroit locker for my low-pinion rear and my high-pinion front.... so I know the carriers are the same. Yet I bolted a reverse cut gear to one carrier, and a standard cut gear to the other one. And both pumkins look the same to me, other than the obvious casting difference due to the high-pinon/low-pinion variations. I would think with a Ford 9" style carrier, it'd be even easier.

And I'm not argueing just for the sake of arguing... I'm curious, as I thought my logic 'sounded' pretty darn good. But, alas, I'm probably wrong.

Speak up Larry. Tell us how you're setup now.

benw1 · Feb 18, 2011

TreeClimber said:
But if they are "no difference between the front and rear housings" then why won't they physically fit? My D60s take the exact same Detroit locker for my low-pinion rear and my high-pinion front.... so I know the carriers are the same. Yet I bolted a reverse cut gear to one carrier, and a standard cut gear to the other one. And both pumkins look the same to me, other than the obvious casting difference due to the high-pinon/low-pinion variations. I would think with a Ford 9" style carrier, it'd be even easier.

Let me be more specific. There is no difference between a front standard cut housing and a rear standard cut housing. You have a low pinion housing in the back and a high pinion housing in the front. Those are not the same housing. The difference between them is a high pinion housing has the pinion above the centerline of the ring gear. The pinion is still on the same side of the ring gear as standard cut. Thus the spiral cut on the gears is reversed so that the pinion can mesh wit the ring gear. Thus the name 'reverse cut'. There is no change in the rotation direction of the gears in standard cut vs. reverse cut. You can not put reverse cut gears in a low pinion housing or vice versa because the ring and pinion will not mesh.

Larry has standard cut Ford 9" axles upside down. When you turn an axle upside down it turns in the opposite direction because the pinion is now on the opposite side of the ring gear from normal. This is required for a rear engine vehicle to make you go forward.

TreeClimber · Feb 18, 2011

Okay.
I figured I hadn't thought it out very well.

Bunk1 · Feb 18, 2011

So benw(and anyone else who cares to share). How would you cure the fact that he has both center chunks(9's) running on the coast. To my knowledge the only real reliability issues the car has are the centers and a questionable wiring system. The lug studs were aready pointed out as a fluke deal, Wheel wasnt tight.

Larry, how many times has the rear ring and pinion failed versus the front?

bobbed_84_toy · Feb 18, 2011

Run hi pinion thirds upside down. You won't have your perfect driveline angle any more, but what good does perfect do you when you have a broken ring and pinion.

Dovetail96 · Feb 19, 2011

What I think we are on to here is our front axle I have had issues with inner shafts.. I can attest that Yukon's new front shafts are considerably stronger then their previous units.. They changed their heat treating process.. Now I have the front axles dialed so far with a Grizzly locker.

Now what I talked in length about today is a rear high 9 3rd with reverse cut gears to accomodate my rear engine and put the gears on the drive side...

Also adding two load bolts that they come with..

NOW we have a ACTUAL high 9 3rd that would work with a front engine rig. I put reverse cut gears in to go backwards and be driving the correct direction.

Check these out and let me know what you think..ChopShop Brad found them for me.. They are saying they are around the weight of a 60..

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=891594&page=8

bobbed_84_toy · Feb 20, 2011

Face loader rocks for the win :redneck:

Spanaway Mudder · Feb 20, 2011

bobbed_84_toy said:
Face loader rocks for the win :redneck:

:haha:

With his heavy foot, those are about the only thing that can handle it...
with that..:haha:

Larry, did you look at that entire thread?:eeek:

LarryS · Feb 22, 2011

Larry,
Thanks for the help on Outer Limits. Without your help that may have been the end of our race. At the Stampede we were able to help you and Dave sure was happy to see your smiling face at KOH. With a little luck our teams will meet on the podium one day instead of when one of us needs help and one of us is done.

Jay Luke · Feb 22, 2011

It was great to see you down there as always. Looking forward to this summer :beer: As for the axles...BenW seems to know his chit. Besides...I'm a "Toyota guy" :redneck::haha:

Maverick26 · Feb 23, 2011

I would go with a cheap set of D60s (less then a fabed 9") from the junk yard or doner truck. Both low pinion, then flip them, weld your knuckle of choice on the front one, then stuff them with D70 gears and CTM shafts... Keep the 8 lug.

I bet you axles wont hold you back from finishing..

Jay Luke · Feb 23, 2011

Maverick26 said:
I would go with a cheap set of D60s (less then a fabed 9") from the junk yard or doner truck. Both low pinion, then flip them, weld your knuckle of choice on the front one, then stuff them with D70 gears and CTM shafts... Keep the 8 lug.

I bet you axles wont hold you back from finishing..

Have you been watching "Extreme4x4" :; ...This sounds like a good option to me as well.

CHOP SHOP · Feb 23, 2011

how is a 60 running on the coast side any better than a 9 on the coast side?

Just seems tougher to repair in the trail.

deerlick · Feb 23, 2011

brad it was on tv, duh

CHOP SHOP · Feb 23, 2011

deerlick said:
brad it was on tv, duh

I lost faith in that show when they put spicer ujoints on a toyota way back.

First thing they broke on the trial not even 100 feet into it was the ujoints/driveline.

tards.:looser:

But hey they got that **** form tom woods for free, it must be better than ol Mr Toyoda's oem stuff right? :scratchhead:

MarcW · Feb 23, 2011

CHOP SHOP said:
how is a 60 running on the coast side any better than a 9 on the coast side?

Just seems tougher to repair in the trail.

The ring gear is 3/4" bigger... Duh :haha:

Nevermind the lost pinion bearing :haha:

Hip · Feb 23, 2011

well it goes unsaid with hi9 gears which are really 8.8 gears in a 9" housing and only have one tooth in contact at all times.

the reason the ford 9" is so popular is it is the "first" size that has two teeth always in contact with the pinon.

so a true ford 9" is twice as strong as a hi-9".

a sixty also always has two teeth in contact so it is also at least twice as stron as a Hi-9".

run it forward, backwards, coast, or drive, two teeth is twice as stron as one tooth.:redneck:

Maverick26 · Feb 24, 2011

Jay Luke said:
Have you been watching "Extreme4x4" :; ...This sounds like a good option to me as well.

I dont have TV so no.. But I do know that a 9" is for 1/2 ton trucks and a D70 ring gear came out of a 1 ton.

Maverick26 · Feb 24, 2011

Hip said:
well it goes unsaid with hi9 gears which are really 8.8 gears in a 9" housing and only have one tooth in contact at all times.

the reason the ford 9" is so popular is it is the "first" size that has two teeth always in contact with the pinon.

so a true ford 9" is twice as strong as a hi-9".

a sixty also always has two teeth in contact so it is also at least twice as stron as a Hi-9".

run it forward, backwards, coast, or drive, two teeth is twice as stron as one tooth.:redneck:

Thanks for the more hi tech response... :awesomework:

LarryS · Feb 24, 2011

Correct me if I'm wrong but my understsnding is that a flipped 9 is on the coast side because it never came in a front axle application. A flipped 60 in a rear engine buggy is on the drive side.

??????