Yacolt Burn Trails, Camas Wa.

[POR]

This is a great topic if you can pull your pride out of the conversation some great points are being made. Now I'm in no way knocking anyone's hard work.. I think it's being applied wrong. By talking about "paving" practices I think alot of local work is taking away from the natural area that brings people to that place. If walker and elbe for instance is "designed" the same.. why would either user group leave to go recreate to the other, it's lost its individuality

 

[BUILTnotBOT]

Wasn't expecting this response but hey I got the point through...

I get we gotta start somewhere. Just a shame we write these off as "trails" when they are anything but that. Growth is the common theme and at last we are headed in the right direction of gaining access instead of losing it.

Simply tired of great trails going away and these limp **** systems being considered adequate replacements.

 

[crash2]

Then do what we have not been able to do...

 

[Jacob]

Why do we not push for private parks, so that we don't need to work within the constraints of the government? What if as a user group you tell the government Noone will participate in paving practices? I agree with your comment each trial area is different and offers variety to users but when all areas become gravel roads with rock piles to drive over and log crawls to play on... where's your variety?

Private parks are not completely unregulated or without huge liabilities and costs for the owners. You should do more research. I wheeled private parks for years and frankly it sucks. Crowded, usually full of jerk offs, and you get to go in circles in a small area.

 

[ain'tstuckjustresting]

Look how well the small private wheeling spots in the area have fared. Happs, Cranberry Lake, Monroe Adventure Park, etc have been shut down because of environmental, insurance/liability, zoning, noise or a list of other reasons. There is no simple answer. I choose to wheel now and make the area I use a better place to wheel in the future. Silly me.

 

[crash2]

Wrong state for a private orv area..

 

[pokey]

Look how well the small private wheeling spots in the area have fared. Happs, Cranberry Lake, Monroe Adventure Park, etc have been shut down because of environmental, insurance/liability, zoning, noise or a list of other reasons. There is no simple answer. I choose to wheel now and make the area I use a better place to wheel in the future. Silly me.

:awesomework: happs is the only one surviving

 

[POR]

Private parks are not completely unregulated or without huge liabilities and costs for the owners.
As a user, as long as the owner makes it affordable.. why is this even a concern to you?


You should do more research. I wheeled private parks for years
and frankly it sucks. Hmm... I don't think they all do, maybe the one you went to did... AOP is awesome and Golden mountain is bad ass.. those are private parks... for example.



Crowded, usually full of jerk offs, and you get to go in circles in a small area.

This sounds exactly like us! Except we get dirt roads with piles of rocks to drive on.

 

[POR]

Look how well the small private wheeling spots in the area have fared. Happs, Cranberry Lake, Monroe Adventure Park, etc have been shut down because of environmental, insurance/liability, zoning, noise or a list of other reasons. There is no simple answer. I choose to wheel now and make the area I use a better place to wheel in the future. Silly me.

Those are very small little events, I wouldn't consider those "wheeling" destinations.. what I'm talking about is.. for example if elbe was privately owned property.. they would use every inch of land to provide trails for everyone. The trails wouldn't be maintained gravel roads with rock piles. You get more for your money paying a park to go wheeling then paying the government to go..

 

[POR]

Wrong state for a private orv area..

They all start out as wrong states... back east went private parks years ago because of the closures and road building practices that were being forced upon them. From what I see, it seems to be working very well for them.

 

[CHOP SHOP]

It seems we need to take notes from the homeless.

They do nothing and the gov gives them whatever they want!




Do your thang and just dont take pics. Thats the recipe. :kissmyass:

 

[deerlick]

Those are very small little events, I wouldn't consider those "wheeling" destinations.. what I'm talking about is.. for example if elbe was privately owned property.. they would use every inch of land to provide trails for everyone. The trails wouldn't be maintained gravel roads with rock piles. You get more for your money paying a park to go wheeling then paying the government to go..

So you really think elbe could have trails anywhere and everwhere if it was private. The gov. Will still be telling you what you can do. Good luck funding that much land and paying insurance on recreating there.

 

[ain'tstuckjustresting]

The Nisqually tribe would never let a private orv park open anywhere near the Nisqually watershed.

 

[Jacob]

They all start out as wrong states... back east went private parks years ago because of the closures and road building practices that were being forced upon them. From what I see, it seems to be working very well for them.

You are 100% wrong. It had nothing to do with trail building practices. All the public areas were closed and eliminated. Mostly due to special interests or interest groups.

Have you personally ever wheeled a private park "back east"? FYI I have wheeled many of them.

The public wheeling in this state is top notch compared to any private parks back east or in the midwest. I consider us lucky to be able to wheel both state and federal land in Washington. Most of the country doesn't have either as an option for wheeling, much less both.

Honestly, if public wheeling sucks so much and a private park is your desire, get that **** started. Stop running your mouth online about other people's efforts and go buy the land, get the insurance policy, jump through the .gov red tape and hoops, then build the trails you are talking about and show us how great you can do. When's the last time you wheeled the "trails" at Straddeline?

Short of doing that and/or you sharing your opinion with the organization's that count at the .gov agencies you are just being a **** head in this thread.

I can tell you "back east", you won't get a monthly meeting with either a state or federal employee regarding wheeling on "their" land. They won't give you the time of day for a phone call, much less monthly face to face meetings with users. Here, both state and federal officials make themselves available daily. There has never been a time when I have called or emailed that they didn't respond. Washington state has great wheeling opportunities and you should really take a minute to realize it before you bash any further here.

 

[crash2]

Nailed it jacob.....

 

[POR]

So you really think elbe could have trails anywhere and everwhere if it was private. The gov. Will still be telling you what you can do. Good luck funding that much land and paying insurance on recreating there.

Elbe was An "example" of a small space with better utilization of given space.

 

[POR]

You are 100% wrong. It had nothing to do with trail building practices. All the public areas were closed and eliminated. Mostly due to special interests or interest



It was the ending stages of our current fight. Ours will go away as well. Do you not think they fixed,maintained, paved and compromised their ohv areas like we are? This is exactly what's happening here.


Have you personally ever wheeled a private park "back east"? FYI I have wheeled many of them.



Yes I have, a few of them as well. Some are awesome some are not. Just as our area.


The public wheeling in this state is top notch compared to any private parks back east or in the midwest. I consider us lucky to be able to wheel both state and federal land in Washington. Most of the country doesn't have either as an option for wheeling, much less both.




In comparison to other states with public wheeling I've been to, ours is a shame, we are following California to a T. We have epic wheeling, I think some of that could be touched if we were able to have some private parks.



Honestly, if public wheeling sucks so much and a private park is your desire, get that **** started. Stop running your mouth online about other people's efforts and go buy the land, get the insurance policy, jump through the .gov red tape and hoops, then build the trails you are talking about and show us how great you can do. When's the last time you wheeled the "trails" at Straddeline?



This was never about me buying a park first off. I just think the fight as a user group should probably start shifting it's thinking before we are left with a bunch of dirt roads. This is happening before our eyes. I hear alot of good things from my friends who live down south and back east about the parks, and in some states it's saved the sport. If half the country can afford insurance in their parks I'm sure we could to. Oh I'd be willing to bet I wheeled at straddaline more recently than you. Personally I would love to get that "****" started but without the support of a user group it's like fishing in a barrel with no fish. You are having a hard time accepting my opinion, as are most others, so I see no user group support to justify one person to take on.



Short of doing that and/or you sharing your opinion with the organization's that count at the .gov agencies you are just being a **** head in this thread.


Why?? Because my thinking and opinions are different than yours?
I put alot of time in helping make a difference, in the end it's help mold my opinion, and I feel it's justified.



I can tell you "back east", you won't get a monthly meeting with either a state or federal employee regarding wheeling on "their" land. They won't give you the time of day for a phone call, much less monthly face to face meetings with users. Here, both state and federal officials make themselves available daily. There has never been a time when I have called or emailed that they didn't respond. Washington state has great wheeling opportunities and you should really take a minute to realize it before you bash any further here.

So your saying now the government is a good thing now? So they won't talk to you if you want something done privately, but it's awesome that they'll talk to you to compromise the land their closing on you??
Since you've spent so much time back east, have you forgotten all the trail closures, the massive work party's to fix/maintain and save area's that eventually got shut down the same anyway. Even after compromising all the way to the bitter end?
All I'm saying is what we're doing has been done already in most of the country, and its all led to closure in the end. Maybe alternatives need to be looked at. For the sport to flourish and grow in our area we need to change and adapt. I don't feel roads with rock piles is acceptable as an alternative.

 

[Jacob]

I guess I am easily impressed then.

Yes, wheeling here has changed in the last decade. Your voice is loud here, has it been this loud when and where it counts? You're bashing the wrong people in here.

No, I don't think government in wheeling is a good thing, but here in the real world it is a fact of life. It is public land afterall. If the government wasn't involved, the hikers, horse riders, and mt. Bikers might have everything and nothing at all left over for motorized use.

Good luck with your dream of perfect trails. I'm gonna go out and use what we have now.

 

[POR]

I guess I am easily impressed then.

Yes, wheeling here has changed in the last decade. Your voice is loud here, has it been this loud when and where it counts? You're bashing the wrong people in here.

No, I don't think government in wheeling is a good thing, but here in the real world it is a fact of life. It is public land afterall. If the government wasn't involved, the hikers, horse riders, and mt. Bikers might have everything and nothing at all left over for motorized use.

Good luck with your dream of perfect trails. I'm gonna go out and use what we have now.

I bashed Noone. Pointing out that trails being built are roads, is not bashing, its stating the obvious. Keep drinking the tea!