GrayRock Closing!

[AllGoNoShow]

To clarify my post earlier in this thread, I was talking about passenger(s) when I said "guests"

Ppl at an offroad venue only there to spectate, just get in the way plain and simple.

True, but they also help pay the bills for the park owner...

 

[TBItoy]

Re: Re: Re: GrayRock Closing!

What classifies you as a spectator? Hell I've seen people drive minivans around witc. does that mean they are a spectator or a wheeler?

Its all in the wording. If you have a spectator gate fee, then you have to make accommodations/liability for spectators.

If everyone in the park is viewed as an "equal participant" then everyone falls under the same regulations.

 

[mna0121]

Re: Re: Re: GrayRock Closing!

You just drove up to the park to watch? Was there an event or race happening?

Was in Sparta for something (?) saw a flyer for Dixie Run. It was a Thursday, gates were open and a few rigs were showing up early so I followed them in, checked out their rigs great bunch of guys. No wheeling that day but I went back later on caught up with Rocky and like last post, been broke ever since.

 

[TacomaJD]

True, but they also help pay the bills for the park owner...

I guess there's two different catagories of spectators. Most of the time when we get a big group together, we usually have several "extra" ppl go with us that are good friends that find an open seat with whoever they can...or even bring atv's when permitted. Those ppl also get out and "spectate" while the rig owners are on an obstacle...so I guess they would be called "spectators", but I don't look at them as spectators. Usually they know more about how to stay out of the way, and are helpful if you break down on the trail too. I would say the bad type of spectator would be the redneck billy bubba and his buddies that don't know anybody there but lives right down the road and figured he'd come by and get ****-faced with all his buddy's, not riding in a trail rig, in the way, pretty much polluting the atmosphere with ignorance. But then again, like you say...if he paid a gate fee, he's helping out the park owner.

Basicly if it's like a group ride based on here or another forum/group of wheelers, I say spectators are pointless. If you wanna have a big blowout ride that you want to consider an OPEN ride, then let whoever in as long as they pay the correct gate fee and everyone attending will know what to expect from an OPEN ride.

 

[Bronco Buster]

In SC, you can't sue a horse stable, horse owner, and anything having to do with a horse if you get hurt while riding. I don't know how it came about, but i suspect that an attorney with an interest in horses became involved in a law suit. I don't know the detail or how it got passed. It obviously took some work and pull to get this law passed. I keep hearing about ORV parks closing due to high insurance cost. we need an attorney with an interest in our hobby to do something like this or were going to run out of places to wheel. Any one actual admit to having an attorney as a friend? Take'm wheelin next time you go, maybe he'll get interested. Its worth a shot

AL also has an equestrian law. It protects anyone associated with an event even the sponsors and promoters from lawsuits.

 

[TacomaJD]

AL also has an equestrian law. It protects anyone associated with an event even the sponsors and promoters from lawsuits.

So if there were some way of incorporating a law such as this for the offroad venues around here, the only insurance they would have to worry about would be personal property insurance? I don't see why this can't be done if they can do it for a fawkin horse that has it's own damn mind...you're in full control of a trail rig, unless the throttle hangs

 

[zukiscott]

Why in the hell have "insurance policys" not SHUT DOWN everydamnthing we do for recreational fun in this country ,,,,HUH,,,WHAT,,,,

I MEAN,,,,,,,, if insurance involvement HAS gotten this damn bad,,,,,,HOW IN THE HELL are people in this country still invoved in things like.......

roller skateing,,baseball,,,softball,,football,,golfing,,,skateboard parks,,,ATV parks,,,dirt bike parks,,,soccer parks,,,,tennis courts,,,public pools,,,,bike parks,,,drag racing,,,track events,,,,paint ball arenas,,,,mudd bogg parks,,,

,,,,rock wall climbs,,,,,rodeos,,,RODEOS,,,,,boating,,,water skiing,,,tubing,,,,,white water rafting,,,,skydiving,,,SKYDIVING,,,bungee jumping,,,,basketball,,,,hangliding,,,,amusement parks,,,,fairs,,,,,circuses,,,,,,

ETC ETC ETC BLA BLA BLA BLA

you have a chance of getting hurt and or killed participating in every damn activity I listed above,,,"wether it involves a moter vehichle or not",,,so how the hell is all this crap still goin on and our orv parks are droppin like flies

over "insurance policys"

REALLY

Or is it simply a fact that before long insurance policys and jackass lawyers are gonna "shut down" everything we do for fun and entertainment in this country ???

 

[zukiscott]

OH YEA


SOME DAMN INSURANCE


BIGGEST DAMN RACKET / RIP OFF IN THE HISTORY OF THIS PLANET.

 

[Neal3000]

OH YEA


SOME DAMN INSURANCE


BIGGEST DAMN RACKET / RIP OFF IN THE HISTORY OF THIS PLANET.

amen.....farm bureau just raised my dad's home insurance because there have "in general" been a lot of claims made in the last year.......even though he has never made a single claim in over 40 straight years of being their customer....wtf???

if we want protection laws like them horse folks have then we've got to get politicians involved somehow or another. basically we need every offroader of any kind- atv, motorcycle, railbuggys, jeeps, crawlers, and racers in the south to sign petitions and mail them to our representatives and congressmen i reckon.

 

[bigsilly]

OH YEA


SOME DAMN INSURANCE


BIGGEST DAMN RACKET / RIP OFF IN THE HISTORY OF THIS PLANET.

You say that until you need it. Let your house burn down, get hit by a tornado or you get cancer, you will be glad to have insurance then.

Keep in mind, Grayrock is not closing due to not being able to GET insurance. It sounds like Tony is not able to get insurance for the price he is looking for. Understand one thing, insurance companies are for profit businesses, they are not charitable organizations.

 

[zukiscott]

My answer to youre first statement is YES ,,I will be glad I have insurance if any of those things ever happen to me,,,,IF....they actually HELP ME OUT :

My answer to youre second statement is ,,,NO ****,,,place HAS been insured forever

AND,,,,I know FULL WELL that insurance companys are just out for themselves "OH,, I meant to say for profit businesses and not for charity"

I just wanted to RANT about it a little this mornin man

 

[TBItoy]

I think pretty much EVERYONE in this thread is getting hung up on wording, and their own perception of things.

Extreme recreational rockcrawling is "NEW AND SCARY" to the general public and I'm sure the insurance companies don't know to handle it. All they have is what they see on the internet WHICH IS A BUNCH OF IDIOT "SPECTATORS" 4FT FROM A ****ING RACE CAR/MONSTER TRUCK WITH NO PROTECTION.

It dont matter if them "spectators" are your buddies/passengers/family. It looks like SPECTATORS you know, the GENERAL PUBLIC. .... GENERAL SUE HAPPY "NO DAMN PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY THAT MY FACE GOT RAN OVER BY A 44 BOGGER" PUBLIC.


If all the states would do laws like Kentucky (the laws that protect Black Mountain aka Harlan) then we'd be a lot better off and could wheel the **** out of some stuff.

Links:
http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/KRS/411-00/190.PDF
http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/KRS/148-00/795.PDF

QUOTE: KY411.190 (2)

The purpose of this section is to ENCOURAGE owners of land to make land and water areas available to the PUBLIC for RECREATIONAL PURPOSES by LIMITING THEIR LIABILITY toward persons entering thereon for such purposes.

The big kicker in the KY law is that you cant charge people to come on your land. You have to lease the recreational area to the State.

I'm sure you could put a campground in and still charge people for that, just like Harlan. Or sell concessions. Or have events/raffles/gathering on your private land and charge people to come to that (ie DIXIE RUN at TELLICO).

 

[jwilson645]

If the government would stop trying to protect all the gawd damn stupid people in the world then we'd have a lot less of them to mess things up for the rest of us! :****:

 

[muddinmetal]

New Sig

 

[Neal3000]

You say that until you need it. Let your house burn down, get hit by a tornado or you get cancer, you will be glad to have insurance then.

Keep in mind, Grayrock is not closing due to not being able to GET insurance. It sounds like Tony is not able to get insurance for the price he is looking for. Understand one thing, insurance companies are for profit businesses, they are not charitable organizations.

nevertheless i still say the insurance industry is an evil empire- they rip more people off and deny them the help they need than they ever help. It's nothing more than a legalized version of a mafia protection scam.

sorry if your in the biz Joel

 

[pachary]

nevertheless i still say the insurance industry is an evil empire- they rip more people off and deny them the help they need than they ever help. It's nothing more than a legalized version of a mafia protection scam.

sorry if your in the biz Joel

My motherinlaw is in the ins. "biz", I've been letting her know how much of a scam I think it is for the last 26 years.

 

[Donkey]

I just wish people could be responsible for themselves, if I were to put myself in a situation and got hit by a vehicle it's my own fault for standing there. It the mentality that I can make money off of someone that my own stupidity caused.

It's the money hungry, I'm entitled because I got hurt people that cause this, and some lawyers are just enablers. If it wasn't for all the sue happy people out there, insurance companies wouldn't have to pay out for the entitled/own stupidity people, there for wouldn't have such high premiums.

Truth be told I hate um all, and piss me right the hell off.


But on a brighter note i was there last year riding along and have plans on being there again this year, but with my own rig this time. We have a few coming up from tampa. Cant wait this place was awesome and cant wait to give the rig hell up there.

 

[bigsilly]

My answer to youre first statement is YES ,,I will be glad I have insurance if any of those things ever happen to me,,,,IF....they actually HELP ME OUT :

My answer to youre second statement is ,,,NO ****,,,place HAS been insured forever

AND,,,,I know FULL WELL that insurance companys are just out for themselves "OH,, I meant to say for profit businesses and not for charity"

I just wanted to RANT about it a little this mornin man

Sorry to pimp slap your rant :afro:
The health insurance industry, the side I am in, is different from the commercial side which would issue a policy to Grayrock. I have been an insurance agent in the health market for 16 years. I have 100+ businesses insured and over 300 individual's insured. I can honestly say I have never seen a legitimate claim go unpaid. If any of you have ever read the limitations and exclusions in your policy you would have seen they are pretty much common sense items. Things like sex change, injuries sustained in the commission of a crime, and cosmetic surgery are examples of things that are not covered. The insurance company is paid a fee for service, this service includes claims payments. They are are bound to pay claims per the policy description, plain and simple. For those that say it is a scam, racket, etc. wake the **** up. I have a customer that had a child recently and it was a down's baby. To date she has paid in about $4000 in premium this year and Blue Cross has paid out over $70,000 in claims. Chances are she will never pay in enough premium to offset the amount of claims incurred in this one incident. But Blue Cross has paid everyone of them, and paid them all within 3 days of receiving the claim. Without insurance this young family would be in a financial disaster.

nevertheless i still say the insurance industry is an evil empire- they rip more people off and deny them the help they need than they ever help. It's nothing more than a legalized version of a mafia protection scam.

sorry if your in the biz Joel

Neal,

 

[zukiscott]

PIMP SLAP,, ,,,, thats funny.

Well what you said about what Blue Cross is doing for youre customer IS some good news to hear Joel

 

[bigsilly]

PIMP SLAP,, ,,,, thats funny.

Well what you said about what Blue Cross is doing for youre customer IS some good news to hear Joel

Its all good Julio
We all have our opinions, and I am well aware of the view of the insurance world.

As for the commercial side which I am not on, that side is a dirty business. Agents have A LOT of control over how policies are written and what coverage is offered through them. I have heard of some dirty things that go on. That is why I like the health side, it is straight forward. The policy is the same whether you buy it from me, directly from Blue Cross, or some Joe Schmoe down the street. What you are buying from me is my service, if I offer shitty service my customers will go somewhere else. That is not true for the commercial side, you can have 3 agents representing the same company and they will have three different quotes based on how they structure the coverage. And you will have one guy that cuts out valuable coverage to lower his premium to get the business. In most cases what he cuts does not have a negative impact on the customer, but I have also heard of some disasters because of an agent doing this.