The state land meeting is at the King Oscar hotel in Pacific (415 Ellingson rd) starts at 9 and we have the room til 5. This is a land matters meeting ONLY.
Elbe Meeting outcome
- Thread starter TreeClimber
- Start date
The state land meeting is at the King Oscar hotel in Pacific (415 Ellingson rd) starts at 9 and we have the room til 5. This is a land matters meeting ONLY.
Roccrawler
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2006
- Messages
- 6,325
I dont have your answer for width, but restrictions is not the answer for me.(even though I fit) As many stated, BW trail is the only trail worth runnin. Stockers have tahuya to go test there 4 wheel drive out. Bridges seem to be the main concern that I see??
Rigs are evolving.. trails can be harder, with more stable rigs.. which may mean wider.. tight is not hard.. off camber, ledges, roots and mud is hard in my book:beer:
Com on....... Pokey, that picture was funny!
:haha:
As for me Personally saying thank you to you, YOU got that part right?
alot of NOO'B offroaders don't know who the hell you or the pnw4wda is, i get them questions all the time from noob's - here some saw you, heard you and seen what you represent,
I was thanking you.
again........ thank you for all your efforts and doings.
*edited - Jim - I removed the picture, but it was all in good humor. cheer up, coffee's on me next time, k
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TreeClimber
Well-Known Member
I wholeheartedly agree with several of your points. A rockcrawl for a purposely built rockbuggy would be lame. But for a trail jeep or group of jeeps, it could be a fun trail. Plus, it would increase the difficulty overall of the existing trail thereby taking *some* of the traffic off the BW. But Elbe is know for it's trail, not it's rock, and the BW is the sole challenging trail there. It's the only "double black diamond" trail in the system. They NEEEEEDDD to get a sister trail to the busy. Something equally as challenging. Every Tom, ****, and Harry that went to the meeting doesn't care a rat's ass about the Mainline, or the Mainline extension. All those Users want difficult. We need to abandon some of the easy miles and change those to HARD miles. And the PNW (if asked) will have clubs that will engineer those trails for free. They'll cut them, carve them, and build them. But only with DNR permission, and PNW blessings. By building a NEW and CHALLENGING trail, the Busy will have a diminished activity and thereby ease the concerns the DNR has, namely tree damage, siltage, and trail overuse.one thing i still dont understand is this rock garden thing. Sounds fun for 5 minutes then what? I would play on it if it was there but for how long before I moved to the busy wild with everyone else. They wanted to take some pressure off that trail but how much would a 100yds of rock really do. Why not spend the money and resources on developing new trails that you could spend several hours on? and actually releave pressure from BW.?
and I did hear no width restrictions last night (as of yet) but it seems a certain person on here is trying to still push them not sure why?
Someone pushing width restrictions? Yeah. And I didn't really 'hear' them either from the DNR, but that goes back to the earlier meeting when they were actually said (and this I do believe happened) and promised to occur pending the signage. That's what started all the drama. But the DNR didn't 'officially' say that the restrictions are also 'dead' now, so there is still an undercurrent of uncertainty with what will happen. It's appropiate to keep it in mind - as DNR does still control our destiny.
Digger's post goes to the heart of what's happening in our wheeling world. We build rigs to suit our budgets and parts availabity, but we don't build them with the trails in mind. Then, once we have them built, we take them to the trails and make the trail conform to the rig. It's completely reverse from when I started wheeling. Back then, you found the trails by word of mouth (typically from an Old Timer) and built your rig specifically for the trails you wanted to run. That's how I ended up with a CJ5. All the trials around here were 5 sized, so that's what you ran. Period. Then along came the internet, and the specialized magazines hyping all the new technology and parts, and VOILA, we got BIG, AND WIDE, and started doubling t-cases, and going full width, and after we built them, we tried to fit them into trails they didn't ever belong.
Eventually, whether we want it or not, rules are coming. Too many users in too few an area and overuse, erosion, damage, etc, is destiny.
I'll fight till they take away my computer, my voice, and my wallet to prevent that from happening. It's the beginning of the end. I'm the old timer now. Been doing this for 20 years. And I've seen closures. Sometimes, it's a *bam* closed. No warning. Othertimes, it's a little law, then more laws, then closed. But always there is a reason. Green Mountain had more miles of trail than Reiter. Closed and Gated, now. Why? Garbage. Elbe could just as easily get closed for siltage, tree damage, etc.
So for now, FIGHT hard, or be prepared. But also keep in the back of your minds, that ***maybe*** we may need wheelbase, or width, or tire size, or whatever, or fees as a means of limiting the vehicle to fit into what was already built. Just like it was done implicitly 20 years ago.
Regarding the 'gatekeeper' or 'funnel' as has been suggested, I hope they truly allow this to be implimented. It'll keep the idiots and novices out of where they don't belong.
T
Where as meetings like last night have their place and can make an impact haveing a large group like that at every focus meeting will be unproductive at best. Focus groups are just that a few people to focus on the issues at hand. As I said in my earlier post this will all go back to the DNR and they will digest it and come back to the focus group and back and forth. Last nights meeting was to make a point to the DNR and I believe that point was made. Now its time to see if they were listening and get on with the regular work at hand. If for some reason things seem to be ignored then a large group may be effective again. Now if we could just get all these people that showed up out to work partys just think what could be done:eeek:
Well Brian i forgot that i had that avatar. And no i dont think its a good way to start. I am a wheeler just like any one else here. Every year a take my rig apart and build a new one or make improvements to meet the bigger challenge. :beer:
There is alot of good ideas and information going here. Lets keep this up. I am not on here as much as others do to work and time issues. If you ever need any information on anything or have just a question in general feel free to email me. [email protected]
Pay attenion here Brian and I will explain why the picture bothered me. It wasnt picking on me at all it was a pretentios (sp) attack on the PNW4WDA by making it look like just because I am representing the association that I am special or such. Well I am not but we have earned the right to be proud of our organization and when someone makes fun of it yeah I get a little pissy. Now if rich had just wrote "the crowd felt sorry for the old guy" that would have been funny to me because I play the old guy all the time and I really dont care.
Comet
Well-Known Member
Ok, enough about the Pokey pic. It's gone now. Back to the topic.
Should a NEW thread ***led;
Did you attend the meeting and what are your opions and concerns for the next meeting be started?
some ***le to get - others opinions / questions that might not have been heard, by the DNR and others attending the meeting?
then we could base the comments and set / place them into a catagory, seems the director was going there with his opinion of the large crowd. i think it could be done,
1.) - Funding and permits or paid user fee - suggestions
2.) - Trail Work / fixes / restrictions
3.) - New trail - what you'd like to see happen
4.) - People willing to sign up for work parties
---------------
having these 4 catagories, especially the last one will show the DNR that people are signed up, #'s of them willing to come and donate their time to work on trail repairs / etc.
the catagories are a start; if we could create a thread with SUB BOARDS using catagories that members could reply to with there focus or concerns / suggestions, then we would all have a better idea where people stand and want to see change or make change more easy for all. instead of 1 thread with numerous directions of replies......
???????????????
Just a suggestion
Since you brought that up, *not to stir up anything but...
I'am curious as to how many PNW4WDA members run the BUSYWILD?
or even use the Elbe trail system, It seem to be a meeting with most members attending that were more of the extreme / hardcore trail users, *(in others words used at the meeting) Double Black Diamond trail / Busywild, is this saying the Extreme / HardCore rigs are the ones that mostly attened and wanted the most from this meeting?
What about the little guys, this is one issue i didn't really hear much discussion on, will there be trails for the lesser built rigs to still play on?
:corn:
a lot. Theres a club run up there this weekend on sunday that I know of. For the most part they know they are well represented and they dont need to go to every meeting because we do. We figured ourt a long time ago that a large group isnt always the answer. Sometimes it helps but not always needed.
There are no future plans at this point except modifying the ranier vista trail to make it alot harder. There will always be some moderate to easy trails at elbe hills orv. Everybody has to start wheeling somewhere and a hard core trail isnt the place........ :beer:
It just seems alot of attention is towards a rock crawl trail, and figuring out how to keep out the fullsize or rig's too large for the busy, i didn't really hear anything about decent trails or improvements for the little guys?
*Are the little guys stuck going to Tahuya?
There's always the FS roads...:awesomework:
The clubs that have adopted some of the other trails have been adding things here and there. We cant do it all at once when we only get 10-20 people at the work party's. Not to mention we have to get aproval from dnr for trail mods and they do want to keep some of the trails easy so that all users can enjoy the trail system.
If you want really good wheeling you can go east. You don't need to be big and can even use 33's. The trails are more than 2 miles long too. Unfortunately, getting here can be tough once 410 is closed.
We really need to put a stop on this "little guys" and "big boys" kind of thing.Its very devisive. I have been running 33s for years with lockers on both end as well as most of the people I wheel with and know. We run pretty much all of the legal trails around in several states with little or no issues. These are what I would call average jeeps for the NW. There are more and more special built larger tire rigs being built because if for no other reason jeeps are expencive anymore and parts are getting harder to find. The only issue the average wheeler has with elbe is that the holes on the busy have gotten so deep that its not worth the damage to go into them. We ran that trail several times in the dryer season with no issues. But right now the water is over our hoods. The rest of the trails in elbe are fine for just about any basic type of rig as long as common sense prevails. I am looking forward to the rock area because I like that stuff to even if I dont drive a buggy on 40s
