A little Boeing debate

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I'd consider moving. But I sure as hell don't want to move to the states I keep hearing about. I'd rather go back to KW.
 
Big business has to adjust to current times economy wise or the business will fail/shut doors resulting in lost jobs. People need to also have to adjust with the biz or jobs are lost, not very hard to figure out. Just because a group has been given great benefits/wages/etc because of a booming industry/economy eventually the market flattens out due to competition etc that doesn't mean that you will always be able to count on it. Owning business, there are times where you have to adjust your plan depending on the economy and if you don't everybody looses. This is what people fail to see in this its all about me world. Good luck with whatever side of the fence you are on. Don't take nothing for granted.:corn:
 
Lucky Jeff said:
Don't go making sense Porter. That's not what the union is about.

I don't see it passing either.
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Unions are about making money and giving its members a sense of power in numbers will force the employer into seeing things their way. Problem is when the employer is forced to make changes due to the ecomomy slowing down the union has no power.
 
PORTER said:
Big business has to adjust to current times economy wise or the business will fail/shut doors resulting in lost jobs. People need to also have to adjust with the biz or jobs are lost, not very hard to figure out. Just because a group has been given great benefits/wages/etc because of a booming industry/economy eventually the market flattens out due to competition etc that doesn't mean that you will always be able to count on it. Owning business, there are times where you have to adjust your plan depending on the economy and if you don't everybody looses. This is what people fail to see in this its all about me world. Good luck with whatever side of the fence you are on. Don't take nothing for granted.:corn:
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This is all great except for the fact that Boeing isn't hurting. In fact they've made tons of money with the current (overpaid) system. If Boeing fools the workers into accepting less then Boeing will just make that much more.
 
Binder said:
So you don't think pension is important?
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No, I don't think an inheritance check is important. I do think that saving/investing in my future is. And the company is willing to help with that.

You people keep *****ing about the company being strong. That is a good thing! It keeps me employed. If I want a bigger piece of the pie, I can get off my ass and go get it. The company will even pay for it.
 
Lucky Jeff said:
No, I don't think an inheritance check is important. I do think that saving/investing in my future is. And the company is willing to help with that.

You people keep *****ing about the company being strong. That is a good thing! It keeps me employed. If I want a bigger piece of the pie, I can get off my ass and go get it. The company will even pay for it.
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Smart man.
 
Lucky Jeff said:
No, I don't think an inheritance check is important. I do think that saving/investing in my future is. And the company is willing to help with that.

You people keep *****ing about the company being strong. That is a good thing! It keeps me employed. If I want a bigger piece of the pie, I can get off my ass and go get it. The company will even pay for it.
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Who's *****ing, it's just a statement and happens to be true...... A pension isn't an inheritance check. It's your money which is invested then a profit is usually made before you get your money back later. Pension or 401k either way YOUR MONEY is invested before you get it back..... IF you get it back.
 
Really these things boil down to two different schools of thought. Is it a job or is it a career? What happens when you're old enough to retire is only important if you think of it as a career. If it's just a job to you then that doesn't matter being you plan to go a different direction at some point or maybe you just plan to work until the day you drop dead.
If you think of your position at Boeing as a career then losing a pension should matter to you very much. It should matter enough to be a deal breaker at contract time.
 
Binder said:
Who's *****ing, it's just a statement and happens to be true...... A pension isn't an inheritance check. It's your money which is invested then a profit is usually made before you get your money back later. Pension or 401k either way YOUR MONEY is invested before you get it back..... IF you get it back.
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The pension isn't my money. It's money the company has had to set aside for me. I have no say in any part of it. I do however with the 401k. If the company can invest it how they see fit. Then tell me what their issue is with the pension. So far all I have seen is that they have to shell out billions each year to support the pension which has gone up over 60% in the last year alone. Way over what was projected, and that's with all large companies that still offer a pension. And they have all fallen short. The pension is a black eye for the company and it will disappear. You will just have to decide how much you are willing to lose before you finally accept that. But then again, as I mentioned before, you will be fine, you will just be screwing the younger generation.
 
Lucky Jeff said:
The pension isn't my money. It's money the company has had to set aside for me.
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Which is your money. It's yours per the contract that Boeing is trying to replace with a new contract.
It's your choice how you want to vote and why, just sayin..
 
Binder said:
Which is your money. It's yours per the contract that Boeing is trying to replace with a new contract.
It's your choice how you want to vote and why, just sayin..
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It's no different then an inheritance, it's not my money, and it can go away as well. If you think pensions are safe. You haven't paid attention to the rest of the country and other companies/unions. The pension will go away. Why do you believe otherwise? Because you believe you can't be replaced?
 
The pension nor the 401K is employee money. Its Boeings money they set up for the employees. A 401K can be built to a much larger payout then any pension. Right now the pension is like $85 per year or something. If this were to pass then in 2016 it would jump to $95 per year and lock in. Then the 401K would start and take the place of the pension, with a nice kick start. The pension will not just vanish like the union keeps telling people. It will still be there and be paid out when you reach the age. I would rather have a 401K that I have control over the investing of instead of a pension that only pays out a set amount.

What if this fails and Boeing sits back and waits for 2016? If it fails then we should know the location of the 777X in a month or so, if not sooner. If its not here then what? Can we look at all those who screamed it was a bluff and slap the **** out of them? Do you think the contract offer in 2016 would be worth a ****? Do you still think it would have a pension in it? How long are you willing to live without a paycheck to hold on to a pension and avoid a 401K? If this fails and the 777X goes some place else then you can bet on a strike in 2016, and a long one at that. But then again the guys yelling "solidarity" are in no risk of a warn notice, just the guys they "claim" to be protecting.
 
The IAM diehards have lost any sense of reality. If you talk to anyone outside of that union, you will hear the same. Even members of other unions across the country will tell you the same. They have to me at least.
 
Every 401 program I have been in has always been "my money". The comapny has zero control except to contribute into it.
 
Lucky Jeff said:
It's no different then an inheritance, it's not my money, and it can go away as well. If you think pensions are safe. You haven't paid attention to the rest of the country and other companies/unions. The pension will go away. Why do you believe otherwise? Because you believe you can't be replaced?
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You're right that it could go away but it's not anything like an inheritance. A pension is part of your "package" (payment) which includes hourly wages, medical/ dental benefits, retirements, pensions, etc.....
Where did I say it wouldn't go away or that I can't be replaced?:haha:
Do you even know what I do?
 
So here is a nice what if for ya. What if this fails, and Olympia votes to make WA a right to work state? Think there will be much reaction from other unions or their members towards the IAM and its members?:corn:
 

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