A little Boeing debate

[Lucky Jeff]

So who here works for Boeing? Or those that don't but are still interested in the outcome of this extension. What is your take/stance on the situation? For those that haven't heard, the info is here http://www.iam751.org/

 

[GRW]

A couple of articles in the last few days and some limited highlights
(read the articles if you want to know more) :D

The union released limited details about the labor proposal, saying it includes the establishment of a different retirement plan. Members would be paid a $10,000 signing bonus.

 

[Maverick26]

Well if you read the new contract with anything higher then a 3rd grade reading level then you should be able to comprehend that its a bad deal. Not saying times are not changing but the big B has been screwing themselves for the last 10 years or more with bad choices on out sourcing engineering and fab work to the point of major reliability and quality issues. Corp Boeing is trying to squeeze a little cost savings out of IAM workers in order to cover for their lack of skill to run a company. We have one of the biggest **** ups off all time (3M, GE...) running the show and somehow its still the unions fault.

747 is dead or almost, 767 is trying to burn down its sunset on tankers as fast as they can, 787 is a money pit with fading hope of becoming the plane the world needs. And the 777 is having a hard time floating the company with its spending habits. I find it hard to believe that Beoing will be able to just up and move, as it says it will if contracts dont go their way, and be able to compete in the airplane market. With JAL already buying AB aircraft and I am sure other customers soon to fallow It does not look good for the Boeing company this time.

Im sure Corp. Boeing would never even consider a pay cut to help be competitive in todays market. With stock at over $130 a share im sure they are just flat broke.

Something to be said for working for a small company.

 

[crash2]

Why wouldn't boeing still be competitive with pay cuts? Who would they be competitive with?

 

[CHOP SHOP]

Why would they stay here? Does the US even buy planes anymore?

The unions and the WA Dems will be the death of Boeing in this state.

 

[mudmaster]

We have one of the biggest **** ups off all time (3M, GE...) running the show and somehow its still the unions fault.

This is part of the problem! Moving all of the 777 engineering out of Washington to multiple locations, now that sounds like a good plan :rolleyes:

 

[Maverick26]

Why wouldn't boeing still be competitive with pay cuts? Who would they be competitive with?

Airbus does most of its large flow with robots, trying to compete with that.

Why would they stay here? Does the US even buy planes anymore?

The unions and the WA Dems will be the death of Boeing in this state.

Not sure what you mean by the US buying planes, the answer is yes, quite a few demestic airlines buy boeing planes. Boeing is also one of the largest, $ wise, export the US has. Agree with you on the way libs, Wa state, union have forced this into a bad spot.

 

[crash2]

Airbus does most of its large flow with robots, trying to compete with that.

So your going to tell me a worker is going to look/compare with a company thats thousands of miles away? I would say probably no. For me when they say compete I look at it by a regional standpoint since 90% of the folks out there are not going to make a HUGE move for work.

I see VERY few jobs in this region that can compare to what boeing gives.

 

[Mark m.]

I see VERY few jobs in this region that can compare to what boeing gives.

This statement is very true. I work at Boeing and feel very lucky to do so. They have provided me with a very very good living I.M.O.
Here's the but. Its hard to give up things that you have fought to get and then have a gun put to your head and have them say take it or we will leave the state. I haven't seen the whole proposal yet but from what I have seen they can shove that signing bonus where the sun don't shine! I'm voting NO.
I know most won't agree with this but if you don't work there you really have no idea what goes on.:mad:

 

[CHOP SHOP]

Not sure what you mean by the US buying planes, the answer is yes, quite a few demestic airlines buy boeing planes. Boeing is also one of the largest, $ wise, export the US has. Agree with you on the way libs, Wa state, union have forced this into a bad spot.

It just seems like the foreign airlines are always placing BIG orders and ya never hear of any US plane companies unless its to announce that they are going BROKE.

The US is not the plane king, no more.

The airline industry here in the US used to be a source of PRIDE. From the builders to the flight crews to the pilots and stewardesses.

Now its a burning plane, built by overpaid underskilled folks, flown by drunks, served by gays, directed by temp workers, and run by UNION leach bosses.

Now theres some **** to be PROUD of!

 

[crash2]

This statement is very true. I work at Boeing and feel very lucky to do so. They have provided me with a very very good living I.M.O.
Here's the but. Its hard to give up things that you have fought to get and then have a gun put to your head and have them say take it or we will leave the state. I haven't seen the whole proposal yet but from what I have seen the can shove that signing bonus where the sun don't shine! I'm voting NO.
I know most won't agree with this but if you don't work there you really have no idea what goes on.:mad:

And also Boeing affects the whole region from many aspects and those who were here in the 70's know this the best.

 

[Mark m.]

They sell hundreds of planes in the U.S. market. They don't sell the large planes here because there is no need for them. The 737 does everything they need. The large planes are for long haul travel and all of that is done overseas in countries that want to cram as many people in a large plane as possible. All the asian countys and Sandi Arabia is where all the money in the world is at not here.

 

[Mark m.]

They say they want to give older employees like myshelf a golden handshake by letting us retire at age 58. I think its more of a golden shower.

 

[mudmaster]

I just read the contract proposal..........what a JOKE!

 

[crash2]

They say they want to give older employees like myshelf a golden handshake by letting us retire at age 58. I think its more of a golden shower.

If you look at how biz is done these days--are you really surprised mark?
And this seems even more for the norm when it comes to this type of work--look at the automotive industry.

 

[Maverick26]

What Mark said, Im glad I make the money I do and the life I have but I am also a No vote. The Union folks did not ask for this, we are in year 1 of a 4 year deal right now signed by over 70% of the workers here a few years ago. It never fails, everytime a contract or something comes up not one person from the outside knows what the **** they are talking about and they use what they hear on King5 to learn what goes on inside Boeing.

I missunderstood what you ment by compete or compair. Im interested to hear what companies all you non boeing folks think compair to boeing in the north west.

 

[crash2]

What Mark said, Im glad I make the money I do and the life I have but I am also a No vote. The Union folks did not ask for this, we are in year 1 of a 4 year deal right now signed by over 70% of the workers here a few years ago. It never fails, everytime a contract or something comes up not one person from the outside knows what the **** they are talking about and they use what they hear on King5 to learn what goes on inside Boeing.

I missunderstood what you ment by compete or compair. Im interested to hear what companies all you non boeing folks think compair to boeing in the north west.

I can tell you I would be happy to take close to a 10$ hour cut of my health care was what you guys have.

 

[Mark m.]

If you look at how biz is done these days--are you really surprised mark?
And this seems even more for the norm when it comes to this type of work--look at the automotive industry.

I'm not surprised at all. I've seen this coming for the last few years.

I can tell you I would be happy to take close to a 10$ hour cut of my health care was what you guys have.

And this is why its hard to give up. People have fought for years to get these benefits.

 

[mudmaster]

What Mark said, Im glad I make the money I do and the life I have but I am also a No vote. The Union folks did not ask for this, we are in year 1 of a 4 year deal right now signed by over 70% of the workers here a few years ago. It never fails, everytime a contract or something comes up not one person from the outside knows what the **** they are talking about and they use what they hear on King5 to learn what goes on inside Boeing.

I am at the B too and agree with you. People outside don't have a clue.

 

[Maverick26]

Well Boeing might be looking for workers soon.

Dont forget all of you Wa people will now be paying a $.10 gas tax in order to keep us boeing workers here in everett. That is the way this state plans to pay for the new roads and **** boeing is demanding. Im sure you all will just be happy to vote yes on a $.10 gas tax wont you? How about you east siders? Say thanks to big company corp america for this ****in.

 

[CHOP SHOP]

The ***le said "debate",nothing about a educated debate!

 

[crash2]

I'm not surprised at all. I've seen this coming for the last few years.


And this is why its hard to give up. People have fought for years to get these benefits.

But in the day/age of change things will change unfortunately. Look at pensions. That is something of the old and has gone away and thats also something folks fought for years to keep. The business model has changed and unfortunately everything below it must follow suite.

 

[Mark m.]

Greed on both sides is the main problem here.

 

[Maverick26]

Greed on both sides is the main problem here.

Only problem is no one on our side is asking for anything.

 

[Mark m.]

Only problem is no one on our side is asking for anything.

Oh but I think we are. I'm asking that they don't cut my retirement or rise my health insurance.

 

[Arnold]

I haven't seen the whole proposal yet but from what I have seen they can shove that signing bonus where the sun don't shine! I'm voting NO.
I know most won't agree with this but if you don't work there you really have no idea what goes on.:mad:

X2.:awesomework:

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

Well Boeing might be looking for workers soon.

Dont forget all of you Wa people will now be paying a $.10 gas tax in order to keep us boeing workers here in everett. That is the way this state plans to pay for the new roads and **** boeing is demanding. Im sure you all will just be happy to vote yes on a $.10 gas tax wont you? How about you east siders? Say thanks to big company corp america for this ****in.

I don't blame corporate America for this. I blame the limp wristed worthless ****tards in office that are all too happy to pander to corporate America's demands.

 

[Boomer]

I know most won't agree with this but if you don't work there you really have no idea what goes on.

Similarly, what I have seen is that a lot of people who have worked at Boeing or my employer, BNSF Railway, for a long time really have no idea what is going on everywhere else. Total loss of perspective.

 

[Boomer]

I'm asking that they don't cut my retirement or rise my health insurance.

Neither of which may be fiscally viable alternatives.


Boeing was recently named among companies considered at serious risk because their pension liabilities exceed their market capitalization.

Health care costs have been increasing at a rate exceeding inflation.

 

[1982cj7]

The main problem is US companies are competing with overseas companies that do not have these benefits. Before the bankruptcy GM had 17k in benefit liabilities per car, Toyota, Nissan and other overseas companies do not have that. So really it is our fault because we want cheaper products but we also want our retirement and free healthcare. You cannot have it both ways.