Rockwells vs ???

Everyone seems to compare rockwells to dana 60s, and they say rocks are too heavy but to me thats like comparing a 60 to a samurai axle! So how about a rockwell vs a steering 14 bolt or steering dana 80? The weight of a debraked rock can't be much more if any than either of those.

I'll find out what they weigh soon as I get the Mohawk done. I'm interested in the weight difference myself.

It's according to what 14 bolt you're comparing to also,

Say 14 bolt in one of the ColeWorx buggies with 4" tubes (1/2" wall) and SOLID brand kingpin knuckles and Cs, etc probably pretty heavy...


The 14 bolt front axle that I picked up from Lickliter ( stock tubes, Superduty knucks/Cs, unit bearings ) probably doesn't weigh but a few lbs more than a standard 60.

TBItoy said:

It's according to what 14 bolt you're comparing to also,

Say 14 bolt in one of the ColeWorx buggies with 4" tubes (1/2" wall) and SOLID brand kingpin knuckles and Cs, etc probably pretty heavy...


The 14 bolt front axle that I picked up from Lickliter ( stock tubes, Superduty knucks/Cs, unit bearings ) probably doesn't weigh but a few lbs more than a standard 60.

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What about when people weld all that artec crap on a stockish axle? That as to double the weight! I ask this because Rockwells seem like a better deal for broke negrows like myself.

Nuts said:

What about when people weld all that artec crap on a stockish axle? That as to double the weight! I ask this because Rockwells seem like a better deal for broke negrows like myself.

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im with you on that ive ran rocks for years and have pretty good luck considering all ive put them through ive broke ten rear shafts and went with rear steer and have broken six stubs and five inners never any joints and once ripped off a spindle at the 12pics bols and blew the center section apart and broke the bull gear.

fordcontraption01 said:

im with you on that ive ran rocks for years and have pretty good luck considering all ive put them through ive broke ten rear shafts and went with rear steer and have broken six stubs and five inners never any joints and once ripped off a spindle at the 12pics bols and blew the center section apart and broke the bull gear.

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Thats what you call good luck!

One thing I've learned from talking to everyone, people either love a rock or they hate them. Only down fall I really see with them is the center section. But if your building around them should be all good. Hope to have about a 4500 lbs or so buggy with 44's and see what happens.

Ive always said I'd be the only person to break an ouverson 47 spline but i dont have the 5 plus grand right now to try

Some of the lates broken ****.

And another thing ill say about the rocks i have ran a detroit in the front since I've had these 1998 when i went to rocks and the other day at harlan i was at the top of tailgate when the front short side inner broke i had to back down the hill and the detroit opened up and i have pinion brakes so i went for a ride so the drive back to the truck the detroit keep popping so i dont know or care if it broke it im going to weld it when i put it back together.

Damn that looks like my Dana 60 pile uke:

I can't believe none of these people who have built hybrids weighed / will say what their axles weighed. But the hybrid has to be lighter than a rockwell. I've got many d80's and 14-bolts here and I've weighed a bare housing 80 with gears in it and it was right around what a bare rockwell chunk with gears weighs alone without a housing IIRC.

Seems like I read or heard a debraked rock is 150-160 pounds heavier than a stock steering 60. If thats true a built 14 bolt or 80 can't be too much less?????

Tim's new buggy weights 4480, Right ? If I remember right Little Tim Bacon's buggy was just a little over 4500 with the Rockwells. When Lebronn built Poison Ivy , It weighted 4300 and some change. I have not heard what Lebronn's Outlaw weights. The 3340 lbs that the Hitman weights ,amazes me. Would be nice so see some axle weights, Rockwells and some of the hybrids.

Not sure if I missed it somewhere but what does momentum weigh?

race10 said:

Not sure if I missed it somewhere but what does momentum weigh?

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Dont think it.matters with 1000hp

weight and cost varies in greatly. build a rock to withstand abuse is big money, spend that on a 14b steering or a 60 and save weight. take a 400hp motor and tryn get a set rocks up hill or same motor and tons! tons go farther everytime!

twiztedzuki said:

weight and cost varies in greatly. build a rock to withstand abuse is big money, spend that on a 14b steering or a 60 and save weight. take a 400hp motor and tryn get a set rocks up hill or same motor and tons! tons go farther everytime!

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I am not so sure. For the sake of discussion, since we have no real numbers on these hybrid axles, lets try some "fuzzy math" as old "w" used to call it...
Lets compare a coleworx "type" 14 bolt.
STOCK 60 with a little tie rod is 516 lbs. A stock 14 bolt center and stock 14 bolt tubes probably does not weigh less than the equivalent 60 front with tubes. I would say more likely the 14 bolt weighs more in "stock form." . But, lets just say it is the same to just work with numbers we know...Guessing that in a coleworx type 14 bolt you use 4 feet of 4" O.D. .500 wall DOM to sleeve the tubes. That tube weighs in 18.69 lbs PER FOOT for a total of 74.76 lbs. Lets guess the truss is made from 2 square tubing that is only .250 wall. That weighs in at 5.949 lb per foot. Once again assume 4 feet used comes in at 23.76 lbs. Thicker even more. These two items ALONE combine for 95. 55 lbs. So that would bring the "top of the line" 14 bolt to 621.55 lbs if we assume the center of the 60 with stock tubes would weigh the same as a 14 bolt center with its stock tubes. . Add a little extra plating to that truss and you could easily tack on another 10 lbs of metal, particularly if plated..Maybe more...Now you are at 631.55 lbs. Added more "robust" knuckles SOLID brand for example, for 5 lbs at a minimum per side( not surehow much OEM knuckles would add). The total is now up to 641.lbs...MMM... add some 2 inch 47 splines shafts,inner and outer and you can tack on an easy 20 more pounds compared to 35 spline shafts. So now you are sitting at 661 lbs for that 14 bolt front built with the 4 OD .500 wall tubing and beefier knuckles, and "unbreakable axleshafts. Not to mention you would have to run OEM spindles, bearing hubs, knuckles to accommadate those 2 inch 47 spline shafts. These additional items might just add another 10-20 lbs..Guess then would be 681 to 691 lbs. BUt, if you keep it manageable in terms of cost and less weight with 60 hubs,and knuckles you are probably looking at 640-650 lbs.
A debraked rockwell steering front is 692 lbs. Making a rockwell stand up to big abuse is no more costly than building an equivalent 14 bolt front( think coleworx or tim C type). Weight savings is looking minimal, depending on how it is built.
A strong ,but, breakable 14 bolt front is righ at $5000 or can go higher.. A dana 80 like on Tim C new buggy I would guess are well above 10K each....
Rockwell front ,$800. 3500$ with everything for the 2 inch stuff...$4300 and nearly equal in weight to the breakable 14 bolt front... Add OEM knuckles to eliminate the weak point after all the other mods compared to an equivalent 47 spline 14 bolt or D80 front....and everything starts gettin cloudy.
Could any of the above scenario's be built for less, sure. They could be built for more..Probably could be built lighter or heavier to depending on how someone did the fab work...
Until we get real weight numbers it is a guessing game...But, it appears it may closer than many would like to admit for whatever reason.
I am not arguing which is better. More I would like to know real weight and cost benefit analysis like many others.

I hope you don't mind if I throw in a factor that's different than weight.

Another large drawback to rocks is their gear ratio. The lack of choices in gearing mean this is another monument that has to be built around with he rocks, much like the physical dimensions of the top-loading diff.

Also, the two stage gearset is said to be a power drain.

I realize the initial path of this thread deals with weight, but it seems that people are building hybrids to get rock strength without some of the drawbacks of rocks.

jordan7118 said:

I hope you don't mind if I throw in a factor that's different than weight.

Another large drawback to rocks is their gear ratio. The lack of choices in gearing mean this is another monument that has to be built around with he rocks, much like the physical dimensions of the top-loading diff.

Also, the two stage gearset is said to be a power drain.

I realize the initial path of this thread deals with weight, but it seems that people are building hybrids to get rock strength without some of the drawbacks of rocks.

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You can work around the deep gears by using stock t-case gears, the right trans and obviously tall tires. And the plus side of the deep gears is they take stress off the rest of the drivetrain.