4:30s front and 4:56 rear

jeeppoor · May 21, 2018

We have 5.38s, spool in the rear, lunch box locker in front, front steer, 4 to 1 in case. AW4 trans, Stock 4.0 motor, 43 pit bull rockers. We like our combination. It works good crawling. not that great in mud. But we try to stay out of the mud now a days.
In our mud racing days, It was common to see someone running different ratios from front to rear.

Dirt700 · May 21, 2018

Now I'm all f'd up. Nick knows his stuff pretty good and says keep 430s front and go 456 rear. And others say make front 410 to match the rear. Or go 456 all the way thru, if I had tony b's money, it would be a lot easier. May need to make a poll

paradisepwoffrd · May 21, 2018

Re: Re: 4:30s front and 4:56 rear

Dirt700 said:
Now I'm all f'd up. Nick knows his stuff pretty good and says keep 430s front and go 456 rear. And others say make front 410 to match the rear. Or go 456 all the way thru, if I had tony b's money, it would be a lot easier. May need to make a poll

I'm with Nick. 4.56s rear, 4.30 front. Having a slightly higher ratio up front will help pull the rig in turns and handle a little better.

I wouldn't do it if it's a rig that might see street time.

blacksheep10 · May 21, 2018

If you're on shotcrete courses, better have some badass drivelines. Otherwise, I'd mix and see what happens. Don't drive on pavement with it in.

Dirt700 · May 21, 2018

The guy that has the maroon mofab buggy, that used to be on here for sale. Has 410s and just swapped from 4.3 to a 3.0 gear set is supposed to let me know what he thinks after some more seat time

Dirt700 · May 21, 2018

I think this around the 5th time I have changed my mind on gears during this build. :'(

kmcminn · May 21, 2018

You know I'm not real sure how much money you have in your build or what kind of budget. Dont don't cheap out on gears. At least have the front and back matching. It's not like this is some pos truck you are going out drinking in just to destroy.

TBItoy · May 21, 2018

Don't give me any credit as to actually "knowing" anything molaugh

I ran 4.10 front, 4.37 rear in a Toyota for a while, worked fine. It *seemed* like it made it easier to steer on tight trails (welded f/r), almost like micro front dig... which makes sense because the rear travels a shorter distance around a turn.

I set up 5.29s in the rear of a buddy's truck that he was planning to SAS... 8 years ago. It's still got 4.10 ifs front and gets trail wheeled and "mudded" all the time. Definitely not a real comparison to a buggy, but it does kinda work...

Aaaand rc rock crawlers... very common to overdrive the front but they proportionally weigh about 1/4 what a real rig does (1:10 scale crawler 12" wheelbase 4.5" tall tires weighing in at 10lb)

Just if I was in your shoes, and looking to gear the axles in a hot rod buggy, I'd opt for dropping the rear a bit lower to try it. Worst case scenario you sell the used 4.30 and 4.56 gears and go 4.10 or 4.88 in both.

Dirt700 · May 21, 2018

TBItoy said:
Don't give me any credit as to actually "knowing" anything

I ran 4.10 front, 4.37 rear in a Toyota for a while, worked fine. It *seemed* like it made it easier to steer on tight trails (welded f/r), almost like micro front dig... which makes sense because the rear travels a shorter distance around a turn.

I set up 5.29s in the rear of a buddy's truck that he was planning to SAS... 8 years ago. It's still got 4.10 ifs front and gets trail wheeled and "mudded" all the time. Definitely not a real comparison to a buggy, but it does kinda work...

Aaaand rc rock crawlers... very common to overdrive the front but they proportionally weigh about 1/4 what a real rig does (1:10 scale crawler 12" wheelbase 4.5" tall tires weighing in at 10lb)

Just if I was in your shoes, and looking to gear the axles in a hot rod buggy, I'd opt for dropping the rear a bit lower to try it. Worst case scenario you sell the used 4.30 and 4.56 gears and go 4.10 or 4.88 in both.

Seems like 456 is a good middle ground

TBItoy · May 21, 2018

Dirt700 said:
Seems like 456 is a good middle ground

But you can't get the new style 10" hp60 gears in 4.56 can you?

Dirt700 · May 21, 2018

kmcminn said:
You know I'm not real sure how much money you have in your build or what kind of budget. Dont don't cheap out on gears. At least have the front and back matching. It's not like this is some pos truck you are going out drinking in just to destroy.

My wife just tells me buy once, cry once. If not I will end changing down the road, costing even more

Dirt700 · May 21, 2018

TBItoy said:
But you can't get the new style 10" hp60 gears in 4.56 can you?

All I have found is the 488s in 10 inch

Dirt700 · May 22, 2018

TBItoy said:
But you can't get the new style 10" hp60 gears in 4.56 can you?

I stand corrected Nick, I just looked on ecgs and nitro now offers 10" ring gears all the way up to 538s

4byfan · May 22, 2018

You can usually find a set of used 14 bolt factory 4:56 pull outs cheap since they came in all the cucv's and a lot of people regear. I would bet if you drove a buggy that was 4:30/4:56 and you weren't told that it was this way you wouldn't even notice it. Unless on pavement. My last buggy was 3.73 3.8 turbo 400. 1st was 35.15 final which was plenty for crawling and 2nd was where it was at for climbing. 4.56/3.0 400 would be 33.92 final so almost the same. Everybody's opinion will differ on this and hp makes a difference. But if you're building a bouncer you usually graduate to more hp if you don't start with it in the beginning. Then you will be banging of the rev limiter all the time which sounds cool but isn't going anywhere.

44BRAND · May 22, 2018

I had the same ratios Nick is talking about in the Rattler when I first put it together. 4.10 front and 4.37 rear. Welded both ends. Just driving around the yard, it would bind up so bad, it would quit pulling unless you were on the gas. I was afraid it would break the t-case if I tried to wheel it that way. With it on jack stands and in 4 wheel drive, one rotation of a rear tire equaled almost one and a half of a front tire. on 39.5 TSLS. I'm not saying it definitely won't work, but I wouldn't do it, felt really sketchy. You are for sure binding everything up as long as no tires are spinning/slipping. Just my 2 cents worth.

TBItoy · May 22, 2018

Dirt700 said:
I stand corrected Nick, I just looked on ecgs and nitro now offers 10" ring gears all the way up to 538s

I remember seeing that now... and they still have 29 spline pinion... Swing and a miss...

44BRAND said:
I had the same ratios Nick is talking about in the Rattler when I first put it together. 4.10 front and 4.37 rear. Welded both ends. Just driving around the yard, it would bind up so bad, it would quit pulling unless you were on the gas. I was afraid it would break the t-case if I tried to wheel it that way. With it on jack stands and in 4 wheel drive, one rotation of a rear tire equaled almost one and a half of a front tire. on 39.5 TSLS. I'm not saying it definitely won't work, but I wouldn't do it, felt really sketchy. You are for sure binding everything up as long as no tires are spinning/slipping. Just my 2 cents worth.

not saying you didn't feel the binding (mine did the same but a little turning or blip of the throttle and it wasn't that noticable), but your jack stand observation doesn't work out mathematically.

4.10/4.37 the front will turn 1.055 rotations per 1 rear rotation (380 degrees vs 360 degrees)

I was also running 39 Iroks wit that setup, so they aren't exactly the most grippy tires around

Dirt700 · May 22, 2018

TBItoy said:
I remember seeing that now... and they still have 29 spline pinion... Swing and a miss...

not saying you didn't feel the binding (mine did the same but a little turning or blip of the throttle and it wasn't that noticable), but your jack stand observation doesn't work out mathematically.

4.10/4.37 the front will turn 1.055 rotations per 1 rear rotation (380 degrees vs 360 degrees)

I was also running 39 Iroks wit that setup, so they aren't exactly the most grippy tires around

If they would make 35 spline pinion and 10" r&p sets, they would sell like crazy