A little Boeing debate

[1982cj7]

There is an article in the Times yesterday that shows what Boeing is looking for. No cost site, no cost facilities, tax breaks, no cost infrastructure. I could open a business if it didn't cost anything. :looser:

 

[Lucky Jeff]

Have you talked to many managers lately? They have been taking hits. They just don't get a say in anything. They come in one day and find their benefits have changed. They also get no overtime pay starting the 1st of the year. Which their overtime was already reduced quite a while ago. But they are still expected to work OT every day. SPEEA has already had their pension frozen. Whoever thinks we are the only ones taking hits isn't paying attention to anyone but themselves, as I stated previously. It's simple enough for you to copy and paste the offer if you feel I am lying about anything in my posts.

 

[I B RACIN]

Have you talked to many managers lately? They have been taking hits. They just don't get a say in anything. They come in one day and find their benefits have changed. They also get no overtime pay starting the 1st of the year. Which their overtime was already reduced quite a while ago. But they are still expected to work OT every day.

The above is why we have a union so they can't just run over us, would you want to work overtime and weekends for free..I don't...

That said I also think our union makes it way to difficult to fire the dead weight around here..

You also can not believe what is in the news, Boeing tells the media only what they want to...

 

[notstock]

Am I wrong in thinking that Boeing is trying to do this in the middle of a valid contract? Or is a contract about to expire?

 

[NotSoPC]

You sir are truly a douchebag. Why did you go to work for boeing in the first place. Let me guess the pay and benifits?

Came to Boeing cause I figured why not. Planned to leave within two or three years and now have been here for almost seven. I didn't have an issue with unions before coming to Boeing, really still don't, but I saw real fast the pure entitlement that the IAM member ship thinks it has. I would say an easy 40% work at about 60% effort. 20% don't work at all. I have never seen so many people work harder at not working then it would be just to do the damn job. Maybe you have issue with my position cause it covers you. Maybe it don't. Don't really care. The IAM has a large amount of flat out useless people hiding behind the IAM. By the way, it was the schooling that I came here for. The IAM is my reason for leaving, lots and lots of pos sandbaggers.

Am I wrong in thinking that Boeing is trying to do this in the middle of a valid contract? Or is a contract about to expire?

The current contract does not run out until 2016 September 3rd. The reason they made this move now is cause they are starting the 777X line and need to know where they plan to put it. Also strikes suck and cost both sides money. They want to be able to tell customers that the IAM wont walk out over the rising cost of the IAM supported ACA impacts.

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

The above is why we have a union so they can't just run over us, would you want to work overtime and weekends for free..I don't...

That said I also think our union makes it way to difficult to fire the dead weight around here..

You also can not believe what is in the news, Boeing tells the media only what they want to...

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess they are taking away the OT pay increase. They can't just not pay for the time spent unless there is a contract with that as a stipulation ie salary etc.


Personally I don't need a union to leverage my employer. My skill set does that for me. It must suck to need someone to hold your hand to get paid. :flipoff:

 

[NotSoPC]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess they are taking away the OT pay increase. They can't just not pay for the time spent unless there is a contract with that as a stipulation ie salary etc.


Personally I don't need a union to leverage my employer. My skill set does that for me. It must suck to need someone to hold your hand to get paid. :flipoff:

Yup. That's why most people in the union are so union raw raw. Most would fail in the real world when told to do real work for once.

 

[Lucky Jeff]

The above is why we have a union so they can't just run over us, would you want to work overtime and weekends for free..I don't...

That said I also think our union makes it way to difficult to fire the dead weight around here..

You also can not believe what is in the news, Boeing tells the media only what they want to...

The union was created for a reason. Protecting our best interest. Keeping us safe, and keeping us employed. If Boeing takes this project elsewhere because they said no to better benefits then most any other job. Then the union failed.

You guys are trying all of the angles. First management isn't taking any cuts, then they're taking so much they need a union like us. The excuses aren't working.

 

[NotSoPC]

The union was created for a reason. Protecting our best interest. Keeping us safe, and keeping us employed. If Boeing takes this project elsewhere because they said no to better benefits then most any other job. Then the union failed.

You guys are trying all of the angles. First management isn't taking any cuts, then they're taking so much they need a union like us. The excuses aren't working.

:awesomework:

 

[Lucky Jeff]

Here is a question though. You guys that were on strike for 90+ days in 08. I was told that the first offer that was turned down, was actually better then what was accepted after the strike. Is that true? I haven't been able to check that out for myself.

 

[I B RACIN]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess they are taking away the OT pay increase. They can't just not pay for the time spent unless there is a contract with that as a stipulation ie salary etc.


Personally I don't need a union to leverage my employer. My skill set does that for me. It must suck to need someone to hold your hand to get paid. :flipoff:

That is true when working for a small company, I did it many time as a heavy equipment operator..

At a company as large as boeing you are just a number no matter how good you think you are....:fawkdancesmiley:

 

[crash2]

That is true when working for a small company, I did it many time as a heavy equipment operator..

At a company as large as boeing you are just a number no matter how good you think you are....:fawkdancesmiley:

Or how bad...

 

[NotSoPC]

Or how bad...

Yup. Unions tell their best workers that they are only as good as the worst. Then turn and protect the worst from being canned.

Another thing before the vote was the reps I saw were telling the new hires, who had never been through a vote before, that not voting was a yes vote. So they voted no like the reps told them to do. The amount of made up BS from the union was pathetic. Now that we are some time past the vote, more and more people are thinking it was a bad move to vote no. I guess their gamble of a better offer fallowing the first is not paying off like they thought it would. To bad. They called bluff, no bluff found.

 

[deerlick]

Yup. Unions tell their best workers that they are only as good as the worst. Then turn and protect the worst from being canned.

Another thing before the vote was the reps I saw were telling the new hires, who had never been through a vote before, that not voting was a yes vote. So they voted no like the reps told them to do. The amount of made up BS from the union was pathetic. Now that we are some time past the vote, more and more people are thinking it was a bad move to vote no. I guess their gamble of a better offer fallowing the first is not paying off like they thought it would. To bad. They called bluff, no bluff found.

ur making too much sense for someone who works at boeing, lol

 

[03 CON]

Which would make it "the union".


However, its is the union's management that is responsible for presenting these such things to their voters, and as such usually take a stand one way or another and bias the information as such. The vast majority of voters (weather it be union members or general voting public) is vastly ignorant on the issues they vote for and have to rely on other sources to make their opinion. I know with the union I deal with I have seen blatant lies laid before the membership to sway opinions..... and the membership (as a general whole) eats it up because they don't know better or are, for lack of a better term, brainwashed into thinking "management evil, union do no wrong".

So if sheeple are not smart enough to learn on there own, then it is their fault, not a "union"....:D

 

[Lucky Jeff]

So if sheeple are not smart enough to learn on there own, then it is their fault, not a "union"....:D

And your definition of a union is what exactly? Yes, you will have to be very specific and inaccurate to prove your point.

 

[Maverick26]

Its hard for me to even grasp the fact that people think this is even close to a big deal. Honestly I could not care less about how many offers Boeing puts up to the IAM, or how many other states Boeing thinks it could move to in order to save a dime. I think the entire mess is unbelievable, its run just like our government is. The union is its own company, it has a corperate HQ and all its high up bussiness reps that go about their dealings with one thing in mind, $. Same goes for corperate Boeing. These are the people that are currupt. I would like to think that most the folks out here on the floor everyday working, voted for themselves and nothing else. People that voted for the plee of the company to help them save money voted for the wrong reason. Some folks voted cause they might be scared about loosing the job they have and they are willing to pay to keep it, And some folks voted cause they know Boeing is not the only thing in this world, its just a job. The people that work here voted, its done now. Boeing got the answer they wanted so let it be. I find it hard to blame the union workers for pushing Boeing out of this state, Im getting really tired of hearing how its my fault cause I voted no. Get a grip people, this place is only nice cause of the pay. Voting yes to that contract was like voting yes to more taxes cause they say its for something good. It is what it is, Im happy for boeing! They get a chance to get rid of the bad union people and move to a cheaper COL state to rape the land of its highly skilled workers, tool up, and build world class 777s on new off shore engineering with year 1 fresh employees. Sounds like an adventure! :haha:

 

[DHR Darren]

While that may be true to some Mav, I do think this will end just like Reynolds Metals did in Longview. They were the largest employer in SW Washington and closed their doors one day. 90% of the employees thought it would never happen and lived as such having $2990 of a $3000 dollar bi-weekly check spoken for by financed items such as homes,boats,RV's,lifted pickups, any other toy imaginable. They lived their two week span off of credit cards and paid them when the next check came.

One day those checks stopped and within a month the bank & credit union parking lots of Longview/Kelso were packed full of all these items that were turned in by the "owners". That caused an economic hit that Cowlitz county has never fully recovered from. If Boeing does the same, the Puget Sound region will look like Detroit.

Good luck.

 

[CHOP SHOP]

While that may be true to some Mav, I do think this will end just like Reynolds Metals did in Longview. They were the largest employer in SW Washington and closed their doors one day. 90% of the employees thought it would never happen and lived as such having $2990 of a $3000 dollar bi-weekly check spoken for by financed items such as homes,boats,RV's,lifted pickups, any other toy imaginable. They lived their two week span off of credit cards and paid them when the next check came.

One day those checks stopped and within a month the bank & credit union parking lots of Longview/Kelso were packed full of all these items that were turned in by the "owners". That caused an economic hit that Cowlitz county has never fully recovered from. If Boeing does the same, the Puget Sound region will look like Detroit.

Good luck.

Maybe those poor souls (or overspent douches) should live within their means. I feel no sympathy for them.

 

[NotSoPC]

Here is a question though. You guys that were on strike for 90+ days in 08. I was told that the first offer that was turned down, was actually better then what was accepted after the strike. Is that true? I haven't been able to check that out for myself.

To be honest, I have no idea. I don't remember **** of the first offer, but I do know people have been saying that sense we got back from the strike. Then went to massive over time and some layoffs in the fallowing months.

 

[DHR Darren]

Maybe those poor souls (or overspent douches) should live within their means. I feel no sympathy for them.

Nor do I choppy.

The point I was making wasn't about sympathy for them it was that anything can end at anytime and when that rug is jerked out from under such a large infrastructure the fallout is huge. The members of that infrastructure (Boeing employees) would be wise to start doing some damage control and prepare.

 

[CHOP SHOP]

Its nothing new.


Is there any livestock sale barns left? Is there any sawmills left? Is there any kaiser aluminum or alcoa? is there an asarco? WHOLE industries, have dried up here before lots of times.


TONS of large employers have come and gone around here. Its the normal cycle. If your not prepared for it, then bammer.



Your a logger, I know you understand job uncertainty very well. Just gotta take the ups, with the downs.





If only the longshore union would fall apart next.

 

[Maverick26]

Yep, ups and downs, day to day. I was here yesterday, I am here today, wading through this BS on my weekend. As far as I know they want me here tomorrow... Just waiting for the day my badge wont let me in.

 

[Lucky Jeff]

I just can't help but laugh every time I hear "highly skilled." The majority aren't.

 

[Maverick26]

I just can't help but laugh every time I hear "highly skilled." The majority aren't.

Agree, one of the reasons I dont enjoy my job. Try explaining to our customers why their plane is all jacked up. Its a daily issue.

 

[Lucky Jeff]

If the union and Boeing could strike a deal for losing all of the dead weight, that would cure damn near all of the issues :redneck:.

 

[DHR Darren]

Quoted for mawfukkin' truth!!

I had tons of friends that worked at the larger mills & manufacturing plants and they always cracked jokes,threw comments out like "Logging, that's a dying industry. I'd never do that because its a dead end job. You need to get into a mill/plant for security you can retire from."
Well news flash fellas, NOTHING is secure!! I just happen to be prepared for a slowdown/market change both mentally and financially.




Now, if only that damn Longshore union could be broken down soon....

Its nothing new.


Is there any livestock sale barns left? Is there any sawmills left? Is there any kaiser aluminum or alcoa? is there an asarco? WHOLE industries, have dried up here before lots of times.


TONS of large employers have come and gone around here. Its the normal cycle. If your not prepared for it, then bammer.



Your a logger, I know you understand job uncertainty very well. Just gotta take the ups, with the downs.





If only the longshore union would fall apart next.

 

[NotSoPC]

I just can't help but laugh every time I hear "highly skilled." The majority aren't.

The best one is people saying that they are skilled and no one can build planes like them. Or use the term "We" have the highest skills for building planes. Its always a tool room clerk or chem guy saying who has never help a tool within 100ft of an aircraft part.

If the union and Boeing could strike a deal for losing all of the dead weight, that would cure damn near all of the issues :redneck:.

Man that would be the day. I bet that production would hardly even notice if at all. Hell maybe the OT would go away once the people creating were gone. I know it would work cause we dumped two people off my crew that were heavy sand baggers and our OT went from every other weekend and one or two 10s a week to last Thursday being the first two hours of OT for 2013. No joke at all. We also saw a rate increase caused by the 737 going up to 38 and will have zero issues when it hits 42. All this with never missing a load and running zero back up stock. All from dropping the **** bags.

 

[03 CON]

And your definition of a union is what exactly? Yes, you will have to be very specific and inaccurate to prove your point.

I don't care about proving my point, I have no skin in the game.
I have worked union and non union jobs, they both have good and bad points.
Boeing came in asking WA state what they would give to make em stay, mostly to see what other states would offer in response.
They would love to drop labor rates and increase their profits, who would not as a company? As workers, they don't want to give up what they have, again who can blame them? It all just gives Boeing the best options to take to make as much profit as possible and the whole time say, hey we gave the unions a chance, they didn't want it.
Of course this is all just speculation as none of us work in corporate office....

Of course this gives you a chance to look for a better job, while still working if you think all is going to hell....
Why wait until the walls fall?

 

[DHR Darren]

Here is what I saw on a racing forum I belong to.....



I used to be a Manufacturing Engineer for Boeing but was recently layed-off because we are moving a lot of design and manufacturing engineering work out of the state in preparation for moving entire airplane manufacturing lines out of state. Because I don't have a degree in the field I was working, I am no longer qualified for the job I've been doing for more than 3 years. So now my job is to collect unemployment checks, play with my almost 4 year old daughter, wrench on the car and send my resume around looking for a job. I think I might go back to school for two more years though.

Nathan