A little Boeing debate

[japerry]

I feel for Mark M. Hes been there for a while. I'm curious, what does this vote do to the people who are within 10 years of retirement?

 

[Lucky Jeff]

I feel for Mark M. Hes been there for a while. I'm curious, what does this vote do to the people who are within 10 years of retirement?

They get a better retirement then they ever would have, and sooner. Mark M. and others like him are the last people you need to worry about. As I said many times in here, the ones that are that close to retirement win either way. This was just a way for them to tell the company to F off again before they retire. This contract affects people that have a ways to go til they retire, like myself. Both sides suck, but you have to decide which has the better chance of you keeping your job. And still a good paying job at that.

 

[WA-Wheeler]

All this **** makes my head hurt... ill stick with my union.....

 

[NotSoPC]

Got a couple union stewards here making noise about starting a case to cut off from the international IAM. Maybe even move to leave the IAM all together and join under a different union. I think it would be a smart thing to do, but don't know if its likely to happen. No matter how someone voted, everyone can see the IAM is a mess. When you have the "leadership" fighting like they are, and going against themselves then its time to take a look at what is best.

 

["S"-box]

All this **** makes my head hurt... ill stick with my union.....

Yup me too!

 

[NotSoPC]

All this **** makes my head hurt... ill stick with my union.....

Yup me too!

If all goes right then I will be in the teamsters union in the next few months and no longer dealing with the IAM crap.

 

[I B RACIN]

I see they raised our union dues again, I don't remember them asking us if they could do that, they bring in around 2.5 million a month from what our dues already were, if they can't get by on that budget, then they need to cut fat... not raise our dues... They seem to forget they work for us...

 

[crash2]

There has to be some Irony there somewhere :haha:

 

[japerry]

Heh I saw the 10k in bonuses going out. After taxes I'm guessing its only gonna be around 6000-7500 =P.

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

If all goes right then I will be in the teamsters union in the next few months and no longer dealing with the IAM crap.

Yea because nothing says integrity, honesty and fair negotiation like the teamsters. :haha:

 

[Lucky Jeff]

Heh I saw the 10k in bonuses going out. After taxes I'm guessing its only gonna be around 6000-7500 =P.

Not if you go exempt! :-) of course, I can only do that because I don't make much money. If I were topped out it would be a different story.

Glad the dues went up. Quite frankly I don't know how our union president was able to survive on 180k a year. Especially given the incredible job he does :haha:

 

[NotSoPC]

Yea because nothing says integrity, honesty and fair negotiation like the teamsters. :haha:

Its better I am sure then the IAM. Plus its my way out from this liberal hole and gets my ass to Idaho. Once I am there with a way to pay the bills then I can start looking around for other means of employment. Gotta get out there first.:awesomework:

 

[hiwater]

I work with several people that travel to western WA every week sleeping in hotels that live in Idaho. Not sure about teamsters but the laborers is almost half the pay in Idaho than in WA.

 

[NotSoPC]

I work with several people that travel to western WA every week sleeping in hotels that live in Idaho. Not sure about teamsters but the laborers is almost half the pay in Idaho than in WA.

I will be working in WA in the Spokane area and living in Idaho North of Post Falls.

 

[Mark m.]

They get a better retirement then they ever would have, and sooner. Mark M. and others like him are the last people you need to worry about. As I said many times in here, the ones that are that close to retirement win either way. This was just a way for them to tell the company to F off again before they retire. This contract affects people that have a ways to go til they retire, like myself. Both sides suck, but you have to decide which has the better chance of you keeping your job. And still a good paying job at that.

Can you tell me how my retirement will be better?

 

[Lucky Jeff]

Can you tell me how my retirement will be better?

Give me info and we can all figure it out together. How many years do you have in. How many years til retirement.

 

[thursday]

i wasn't going to read through 47 pages of this..but I'm a union electrician and my contractor does 99% boeing work...so I'm there a lot. The media turned this state against the boeing employees...nobody outside of boeing can truly understand the situation..the first few pages of this thread left a really bad taste in my mouth about bad mouthing unions in washington state.

I moved from idaho 6 years ago to work over here in the union. You saps that talk crap about unions over here are simply anti-middle class. You don't realize how good you have it even if you don't work in a union over here...BECAUSE OF UNION WORK! Union bargaining is the reason wages are what they are, even for non union workers. Western washington has so many large corporations that demand many workers, why would you be ok giving all the power to these corporations? I find it funny how the media put all the burden on the IAM to vote for this contract...then the next day they put boeings profits for the year in the headlines. Boeing sold a record number of planes in 2013.

How much meat was left on the bone for boeing? they upped their signing bonus 5k the second go around on this contract extension.

I don't know about you guys...but i'd rather grab a corporation by the balls then let them screw me in the bunghole.

P.S. Idaho's job market sucks balls. Although I miss home everyday! Schweitzer Engineering Lab is a very great company though...located in pullman, I used to work there when I was younger and it was a very good experience.

I'm a little buzzed up right now and apologize for my brashness.

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

I am middle class. **** unions. **** them right in their worker brainwashing asses. :flipoff:

If you depend on a union to negotiate for you to have higher wages you have failed as a human. My SKILLS and ABILITIES do my negotiating for me, no one has their hand in my pocket other than the .gov who oddly enough is supported heavily by union voting drives.

I make no apologies for my brashness. :redneck:

 

[Lucky Jeff]

i wasn't going to read through 47 pages of this..but I'm a union electrician and my contractor does 99% boeing work...so I'm there a lot. The media turned this state against the boeing employees...nobody outside of boeing can truly understand the situation..the first few pages of this thread left a really bad taste in my mouth about bad mouthing unions in washington state.

I moved from idaho 6 years ago to work over here in the union. You saps that talk crap about unions over here are simply anti-middle class. You don't realize how good you have it even if you don't work in a union over here...BECAUSE OF UNION WORK! Union bargaining is the reason wages are what they are, even for non union workers. Western washington has so many large corporations that demand many workers, why would you be ok giving all the power to these corporations? I find it funny how the media put all the burden on the IAM to vote for this contract...then the next day they put boeings profits for the year in the headlines. Boeing sold a record number of planes in 2013.

How much meat was left on the bone for boeing? they upped their signing bonus 5k the second go around on this contract extension.

I don't know about you guys...but i'd rather grab a corporation by the balls then let them screw me in the bunghole.

P.S. Idaho's job market sucks balls. Although I miss home everyday! Schweitzer Engineering Lab is a very great company though...located in pullman, I used to work there when I was younger and it was a very good experience.

I'm a little buzzed up right now and apologize for my brashness.

You should have read a few more pages.... Or maybe look into facts instead of just watching some news clips..

 

[Mark m.]

Give me info and we can all figure it out together. How many years do you have in. How many years til retirement.

Been there 17 years was planning on staying till I had 25 years. As far as our new 401K goes I think in my life I've lost more money in the stock market than I've made. This was a exceptional year for the markets but who knows whats coming good or bad.

 

[jeffroadams]

I am middle class. **** unions. **** them right in their worker brainwashing asses. :flipoff:

If you depend on a union to negotiate for you to have higher wages you have failed as a human. My SKILLS and ABILITIES do my negotiating for me, no one has their hand in my pocket other than the .gov who oddly enough is supported heavily by union voting drives.

Your statement is near the pinnacle of ignorance! Unions created the ability to negotiate with companies. Your ability to negotiate individually only goes so far when there is always a guy willing to do your job for less. Read some history books and find out why unions started and maybe then you'll realize even if you're not union you have benefited from them.:awesomework:

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

Your statement is near the pinnacle of ignorance! Unions created the ability to negotiate with companies. Your ability to negotiate individually only goes so far when there is always a guy willing to do your job for less. Read some history books and find out why unions started and maybe then you'll realize even if you're not union you have benefited from them.:awesomework:

American unions were started in the north east when workers were literally making slave wages and it was common to be forced to work extremely long hours in very dangerous environments. It was easy for the companies to exploit their workforce since a large part of it was immigrant labor fresh off the boat that didn't know any better. Southern slavery had just been eradicated by the civil war so there was a large work force that had been slaves so making anything was better than what they had been paid if they had been paid at all.

I will concede that unions expedited labor law but to think that the laws wouldn't have been brought about between then and now regardless of collective bargaining is the pinnacle of ignorance and the direct result of believing what your union has told you.

I'm not worried about someone doing my job for less money than me. I'm a farm worker so I'm at the forefront of cheap labor. People with little to no skills make craptastic wages. With my skills in every facet of farm labor, a clean driving record and a CDL I am farm gold so I'm paid accordingly. :D

 

[NotSoPC]

Your statement is near the pinnacle of ignorance! Unions created the ability to negotiate with companies. Your ability to negotiate individually only goes so far when there is always a guy willing to do your job for less. Read some history books and find out why unions started and maybe then you'll realize even if you're not union you have benefited from them.:awesomework:

Unions HAD a place. Many if not most have stepped well outside that place and over the line of being affective. Laws have taken the place of what the unions ere started for. Unions still think that the laws are not there and its really them making it the way it is. As I see it in my work place, the union is only in place to make sure people don't get in trouble for going to break early, showing up drunk or high, being late one a regular basis, missing work, ****ing up parts, not working at all, etc. Basically just there to prevent the worthless sand baggers from being canned like they should be. IAM in a nut shell.

 

[spidertoy]

Unions HAD a place. Many if not most have stepped well outside that place and over the line of being affective. Laws have taken the place of what the unions ere started for. Unions still think that the laws are not there and its really them making it the way it is. As I see it in my work place, the union is only in place to make sure people don't get in trouble for going to break early, showing up drunk or high, being late one a regular basis, missing work, ****ing up parts, not working at all, etc. Basically just there to prevent the worthless sand baggers from being canned like they should be. IAM in a nut shell.

This! Very true statement right here

 

[Boomer]

Been there 17 years was planning on staying till I had 25 years. As far as our new 401K goes I think in my life I've lost more money in the stock market than I've made. This was a exceptional year for the markets but who knows whats coming good or bad.

Let's assume you earn $75,000 per year, contribute 8% to VIP and are going to retire in 2022.

Old contract: 25 years x $91/each year of service = $2275/mo pension

New contract: 19.5 years x $95/each year of service = $1852.2/mo pension

Initial shortfall = $422.5

Enhanced VIP/retirement account contributions per new contract:
2017 year: $9,000
2018 year: $9,000
2019 year: $6,000
2020 year: $4,500
2021 year: $4,500
Total = $33,000 in additional retirement account contributions

$33,000/$422.5 = about 78.

So the additional retirement account contributions are equal to about 78 months of what you are losing by having your pension frozen in 2016. Let that money work for you and accrue some compound earnings and you are probably looking at about 9-10 years worth of the difference of what the pension would have provided. And that is a pretty conservative estimate, not factoring in pay raises, COLAS, etc.

Your retirement won't be better, but it won't be that much worse, either. If you have been contributing 8% to the VIP for the last 17 years and not doing stupid crap like playing with it like a daytrader, withdrawing it or borrowing against it you should already have a decent nest egg built up, too. This should not be much more than a speedbump in life. If nothing else, work a little longer and grab some more of those enhanced retirement account contributions.

I ran the numbers for my wife, who will have accrued 30 years of service by 2016 and I was not worried either way the vote went. I have had her contributing 8% to the VIP for the 22+ years we have been married and she has a very nice balance, too. If anything, I have been too conservative in our investments and we could probably have even more in there. Our plan for her to be able to retire when she is 62 if she wants to is still on track.

 

[flip]

Unions HAD a place. Many if not most have stepped well outside that place and over the line of being affective. Laws have taken the place of what the unions ere started for. Unions still think that the laws are not there and its really them making it the way it is. As I see it in my work place, the union is only in place to make sure people don't get in trouble for going to break early, showing up drunk or high, being late one a regular basis, missing work, ****ing up parts, not working at all, etc. Basically just there to prevent the worthless sand baggers from being canned like they should be. IAM in a nut shell.

Exactly. We are a Union company but sand baggers don't make it more than a week. " Sorry bud works slowing down hears a rif slip " . Unions do get more state and county jobs in my line of work.