Coil overs or not ? Update ORI's installed and tuned whoooooo!!

[al1tonyota]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

Neal3000 what is the benefits of the dual rate stopper?

The dual rate stop is a progressive adjustment so it increases the spring rate once the shock has compressed a certain amount just like how a bypass shock works!

 

[DirtMonkey]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

Tremendously! One in front of the rear axle would do it. There's a reason why racers use swaybars, when you start tuning your shocks to handle bodyroll then your taking away from what you really need your shocks to do- soaking up the hits and keeping the wheels on the ground. And the dual rate stopper plays a big role in shock/spring tuning, for trail riding you'd probably never miss it though

This. I agree on both. Until they come out with a coilover with on the fly adjustable valving, you will never have the best of both worlds.

To the OP, you have coils with shocks, I suggest you try some shocks w/ adj dampening like the Walker Evens, Rancho 9000, etc. People think the little knob is hokey, but they work. Your springs are just holding the weight of the rig, you need to control the motion of the springs holding your rig. Restricting the valving on a shock will greatly reduce the roll. You can dial them open when you want the plush ride,/hittin whoops, close them when you're climbing a steep wall/doing doughnuts :****:

 

[Neal3000]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

Neal3000 what is the benefits of the dual rate stopper?

From the coilover bible-

"The position of the stop-ring is set to stop the travel of the DRS before the tender spring binds, reducing wear on the tender spring, but, more importantly, allowing the user to tune where in the vehicle's wheel travel the transition from soft initial rate to firm final rate occurs. In general the stop ring is located so that the final rate comes into effect in the last 20% to 40% of the shocks compression travel. This way the suspension will have a higher wheel rate for the last 20% to 40% of total travel before the shock bottoms out."

 

[TacomaJD]

Re:

^^

I'm gonna fool around with mine and try to set it to get firm right before it gets to the bump stop, so it won't be a hard hit when contacting the bump if I'm going semi fast. I have adjustable fixed bumps, not air bumps, so I think the DRS stop ring will be really handy with my setup.

They are not set yet in this pic, nor painted. But you get the idea.

 

[Elliott]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

I'm a pretty mechanical guy I build a lot of crap but for some reason I don't understand how you can preload your lower spring it's just going to raise your ride height. And you are compressing the lower spring as soon as the tire starts coming up, not just when your top spring hits the lock

 

[natedawgxj]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

u go fast haha!!! ol bobby possumcods is got something to make ya go a little faster!!!

 

[Elliott]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

Am I not thinking right that the spanners come on top of the dual rate slider?

 

[TBItoy]

Re: Re: Re: Coil overs or not ?

Am I not thinking right that the spanners come on top of the dual rate slider?

You set them above the slider to "catch"the lower spring at some point in the travel, just another tuning option

You wouldn't want to set them to the slider at ride height, that would completely eliminate the upper spring....


There is another set of spanners on top of the top spring to set preload.

 

[TacomaJD]

Re:

^^^ this. Ok now that explains your logic Elliot, I was trying to put a finger on your theory. The DRS stop ring is most certainly not intended to preload the bottom spring, but to catch it like Nick said after aa desired amount of up travel. There is a wide, threaded range to set the stop ring at. There's probably even enough threads on the shock body to back the stop ring off enough to where it doesn't even contact the DRS (provided the spring rates are correct).


Edit: of course there's enough threads to back it all the way off (had a brain fart), it's the same threads the spanner nuts are on so you can back the stop ring off all the way to the top if you wanna just let the springs do the work like you said.

 

[TacomaJD]

Re: Re: Re: Coil overs or not ?

u go fast haha!!! ol bobby possumcods is got something to make ya go a little faster!!!

You got a point there, most lawn mowers are faster than my rig

 

[Elliott]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

I understand what youre saying, I guess I just cant see where it would help you much to limit the travel of the upper spring, because basically that's what its doing, travel it down to just say 70% of the upper spring then put all the pressure on the lower spring. I checked my rear out earlier because I'm getting old and stupid and couldn't remember how I set it up, My rear springs are 200 on top and 250 on bottom.I took a strap and sucked it down till it bottomed out, My top springs were 80% roughly collapsed, and the rear were compressed roughly 3" give or take I didn't have time to get technical with my measurements, I was doing this as I was running my cnc mill.

I don't have mine setup where I do not need tender coils, I'm going to try and play with some more springs here shortly just to figure out some things. The only issue I really don't like on mine is I can bottom out my rear when I really hit stuff hard, which with what your saying I could help with the spanners run down(if they were still on the shock) to where it would get on the lower shock faster to create more pressure.And I understand that but why wouldn't just stiffening up the compression do the same thing. Because it really looks like my springs are compress perfect at full stuff with the uppers being 80% and my lowers being several inches of compression.And it really is very smooth riding There is probably to many ways to get to the same end with these things.

 

[al1tonyota]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

Your on the right page now!

 

[Chuck19]

Re: Coil overs or not ? Update I have decided on ORI struts!

I have decided to go with ORI struts I will post pictures and review after I get them installed wish me luck! :****:

 

[TBItoy]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

I understand what youre saying, I guess I just cant see where it would help you much to limit the travel of the upper spring, because basically that's what its doing, travel it down to just say 70% of the upper spring then put all the pressure on the lower spring. I checked my rear out earlier because I'm getting old and stupid and couldn't remember how I set it up, My rear springs are 200 on top and 250 on bottom.I took a strap and sucked it down till it bottomed out, My top springs were 80% roughly collapsed, and the rear were compressed roughly 3" give or take I didn't have time to get technical with my measurements, I was doing this as I was running my cnc mill.

I don't have mine setup where I do not need tender coils, I'm going to try and play with some more springs here shortly just to figure out some things. The only issue I really don't like on mine is I can bottom out my rear when I really hit stuff hard, which with what your saying I could help with the spanners run down(if they were still on the shock) to where it would get on the lower shock faster to create more pressure.And I understand that but why wouldn't just stiffening up the compression do the same thing. Because it really looks like my springs are compress perfect at full stuff with the uppers being 80% and my lowers being several inches of compression.And it really is very smooth riding There is probably to many ways to get to the same end with these things.

The thing is, with 200 over 250 coils on the back, your primary spring rate is only 111 in/lbs.

If you had your dual rate stops in place, you could be riding comfortably on 111 in/lbs, but then set your spanners to catch the bottom spring and step up to 250 in/lb in the last 1-2" of travel.


In case you didn't know, when you stack springs, the formula for spring rate is (where K is spring rate):

K= (K1+K2)/(K1*K2)

K= (K1*K2)/(K1+K2)

 

[Neal3000]

Re: Coil overs or not ? Update I have decided on ORI struts!

I have decided to go with ORI struts I will post pictures and review after I get them installed wish me luck! :****:

Pm Blacksheep10 on here or pirate4x4, he is the man on ori's

 

[kushKrawlin]

Re: Coil overs or not ? Update I have decided on ORI struts!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6aZg1mY7peE
Good choice!! I can assure you you will not regret it !!! You can change your set up in five minutes, never have to deal with changing springs 100 times!! Watch the video I think it speaks for itself... Of course we both know they are good products.. But from experience im a ORI fan.

 

[Chuck19]

Re: Coil overs or not ? Update ORI's installed and tuned whoooo!!

I have installed the ORI's and sofar I am very impressed I have a couple of rides on them went to golden mtn. Last weekend and gave them a good test and couldn't be more pleased with the performance and ride I may tune on them a little more in the future but I'm going to leave them alone for now and see how it goes.
They are very easy to tune and adjust but I did figure out that I should have purchased the dual fill gauge I think it would make adjusting them a lot easier!
The tech at ORI is very helpful and knowledgeable I would recommend them highly at least at this point time will tell I guess. :****:
The body roll has been greatly improved and the handling is much better it is not a violent ride when I'm in the real rough stuff like it was before !

 

[torquefreak]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

The thing is, with 200 over 250 coils on the back, your primary spring rate is only 111 in/lbs.

If you had your dual rate stops in place, you could be riding comfortably on 111 in/lbs, but then set your spanners to catch the bottom spring and step up to 250 in/lb in the last 1-2" of travel.


In case you didn't know, when you stack springs, the formula for spring rate is (where K is spring rate):

K= (K1+K2)/(K1*K2)

You did the math right, but your formula is wrong. Correct calculation for initial spring rate is :

Ki = (Km * Kt) / (Km + Kt)

Where:

Ki = Initial Spring Rate (of combined springs)
Km = Spring Rate of Main Spring
Kt = Spring Rate of Tender Spring

 

[TacomaJD]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

You did the math right, but your formula is wrong. Correct calculation for initial spring rate is :

Ki = (Km * Kt) / (Km + Kt)

Where:

Ki = Initial Spring Rate (of combined springs)
Km = Spring Rate of Main Spring
Kt = Spring Rate of Tender Spring

So my 150 over 200 springs would = 85.71 initial spring rate? I tried Nick's math after he posted that and thought something was wrong because I kept coming up with nothing resembling what it should be lol.

 

[torquefreak]

So my 150 over 200 springs would = 85.71 initial spring rate? I tried Nick's math after he posted that and thought something was wrong because I kept coming up with nothing resembling what it should be lol.

That's correct.