Drinking and Wheeling

[Nuzzy]

hehe, wanna come over and drink a 40 oz tonight? :flipoff: :kissmyass:

Gladly if I wasn't getting good and drunk with kelly :D

 

[skrause]

Let me remind all of you openly stating that you drive (wheel) while drinking, that things posted on a website can get you in deep dooodoo if you ever get caught. It shows your view on the matter, and proves you have a history of it. I know this section is not "public" but it's not "members only" either, doesn't take much for someone to sign up and get in here.








:flipoff:

 

[84Toyota4x4]

One thing some of you are forgetting is the amount of calories that are in a beer. I will drink a beer when I am distance swimming because it gives me a quick low sugar calorie fix...without filling me.

Im pretty sure that you mean carbs here, do you not? Carbs give the body the majority of its energy, followed by protein, then fat. I dont know how calories would play into this... If Im wrong, let me know, lol.

~T.J.

 

[GRNTACO]

I am at a total disbelief.............

 

[Weifallo]

Disagreed. Do your research hun...

Ok, here it is: :kiss:

Out of one of my text books from an addiction studies class I took:

"Those who develop a tolerance characteristically display blood alcohol levels about twice those of a nontolerant individual at a similar level of behavioral intoxication. Note, however; that despite behavioral adaptation, impairments in cognitive function are similar at similar blood levels in both tolerant and non tolerant persons. In other words, at a BAC of 0.15%, both tolerant and nontolerant persons display marked deficits in insight, judgement, cognition, and other executive functions. The tolerant person may just appear less intoxicated. "

 

[CrustyJeep]

Didja mean me? What did I do this time? :booo:

No one in particular. I just think it's funny how, usually you young guys, will go off on something that you have now idea what you're talking about. Really, you don't

Alcohol effects you, yes, and it effects people based on their weight, mood, general mentality, and about a hundred other factors. Great.

What you guys completely miss is that a person can learn to a) recognize the effect, and b) compensate for it.

In other words, just because you drink two beers and take your shirt off and start jumping off buildings, doesn't mean we all will. Give it a few years, you'll get it :;

 

[Nuzzy]

Out of one of my text books from an addiction studies class I took:

"Those who develop a tolerance characteristically display blood alcohol levels about twice those of a nontolerant individual at a similar level of behavioral intoxication. Note, however; that despite behavioral adaptation, impairments in cognitive function are similar at similar blood levels in both tolerant and non tolerant persons. In other words, at a BAC of 0.15%, both tolerant and nontolerant persons display marked deficits in insight, judgement, cognition, and other executive functions. The tolerant person may just appear less intoxicated. "

You said nothing about body weight there champ... :flipoff: Care to site any more text book bs?? :corn:

 

[CrustyJeep]

:haha:

(Nuzzy's not getting any tonight, regardless of BAC :flipoff: )

 

[84Toyota4x4]

Blood alcohol content

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<!-- start content --> Blood alcohol content (BAC) or blood alcohol concentration is the concentration of alcohol in blood. It is measured either as a percentage by mass, or by mass per volume, or a combination. For example, a BAC of 0.20% (2.0 ‰) can means 2 grams of alcohol per 1000 grams of an individual's blood, or it can mean 0.2 grams of alcohol per 100 milliliters (also called a deciliter) of blood.
In many countries, the BAC is measured and reported as grams of alcohol per 1000 milliliters (1 liter) of blood (g/1000 mL). Because the specific gravity of blood is very close to the specific gravity of water (its main component), the numerical values for BAC (%, percent) and (g/1000 mL, permille) do not differ to any consequential degree other than the placement of the decimal point.
The number of drinks consumed is a poor measure of intoxication largely because of variation in physiology and individual alcohol tolerance. A single drink containing one ounce (28 grams) of alcohol will increase the average person's BAC roughly 0.03%, but there is much variation according to body weight, gender, and body fat percentage. Furthermore, neither BAC nor the number of drinks consumed are necessarily accurate indicators of the level of impairment. Tolerance to alcohol varies from one person to another, and can be affected by such factors as genetics, adaptation to chronic alcohol use, and synergistic effects of drugs.
Alcohol content in blood can be directly measured by a hospital laboratory. More commonly in law enforcement investigations, BAC is estimated from breath alcohol concentration (BrAC) measured with a machine commonly referred to as a Breathalyzer (even though that is just the trademark of one manufacturer of the devices).

Granted, this says that you may not have the same BAC, but it does state that the average person goes up 0.03% for every drink, so by the rule of thumb, you should be close. The variation isnt an amazingly huge.

All these numbers assume 210 liters of breath as sample...

After one beer within an hour, a person thats 150 lbs should have a BAC of approx. 0.002%. A 250 LB man with the same amount of alcohol over the same amount of time should have a BAC of approx. 0.001%.

After 5 beers over 4 hours time, the same 150 LB man should have a BAC of about 0.033%, and the same 250 LB man under the same circumstances should be about 0.20%.

Granted, this might keep you under the legal limit, but my point is the difference isnt astronomical or anything. We're talking about the difference of an estimated LESS than one beer.

So, between this and what Weifallo posted, I think the point has been made.

~T.J.

 

[KarlVP]

Doesn't metabolism come into play?

 

[Roccrawler]

One thing that no one will debate is if you have been drinking your reflex actions will not be as acute as if you hadnt been drinking. Troy said it best, the type of wheeling we do you need to be on your A game as the wrong move=something bad can happen. I have a buddy that drinks all day on the trail, and I cannot tell he is smashed but he will even admit reaction times are greatly affected. Just because you have a high tolerance, doesnt mean your actions wont be affected.

Exactly............. :cool:

 

[skrause]

Doesn't metabolism come into play?

Yes, your liver's ability to deal with the toxins does have an effect on how quickly you recover.

 

[Nuzzy]

:haha:

(Nuzzy's not getting any tonight, regardless of BAC :flipoff: )

Andrea just tried to show me her book of charts... :D It specifically said a 200 lb person drinking 4 drinks per hour has driving significantley affected... HOWEVER, it's distinctly said 200 lbs at 1 per hour is well within reason...


:redneck::redneck::redneck::redneck:

 

[GrandZJ]

How about a few marijauna cigarette's over a peiod of a few hour's do you guy's feel this would be O.K. as you could pass any B.A.C. breathalizer test.:flipoff: :weed: :weed: :weed: :redneck:

 

[Roccrawler]

How about a few marijauna cigarette's over a peiod of a few hour's do you guy's feel this would be O.K. as you could pass any B.A.C. breathalizer test.:flipoff: :weed: :weed: :weed: :redneck:

Nope.........

 

[GrandZJ]

Dope.........

fixed it for ya, let me be CLEAR here I was kidding about that I don't agree with anyone getting sloppy drunk and doing any kind of driving!

 

[Roccrawler]

fixed it for ya, let me be CLEAR here I was kidding about that I don't agree with anyone getting sloppy drunk and doing any kind of driving!

But getting stoned and stupid is?

 

[84Toyota4x4]

Yes, your liver's ability to deal with the toxins does have an effect on how quickly you recover.

Correct. Some faster, some slower, thats why they use words like "average". The average persons liver can only deal with the toxins at a rate of about 15 ml per hour. I would imagine that the difference for a high metabolism couldnt be THAT much different. Also, a diminshed liver from prolonged drinking would of course filter the alcohol slower, thus prolonging the time the alcohol is in the blood stream, allowing the brain to become more aware of it, and adapt, thus fooling the person into thinking theyre still ok to drink more. Of course thats all long term.

~T.J.

 

[GrandZJ]

But getting stoned and stupid is?

As I said in my last post NO! That was a joke and I don't agree with anyone getting stupid behind a steering wheel! Some of the comment's I have seen in this post are to say the least surprizing, but you wanna know what realy pisses me off? When I see wheeler's drinking getting stupid and throwing the can's out on the way up the trail, I've nearly had fist fight's with drunk's doing just that.

 

[Roccrawler]

As I said in my last post NO! That was a joke and I don't agree with anyone getting stupid behind a steering wheel! Some of the comment's I have seen in this post are to say the least surprizing, but you wanna know what realy pisses me off? When I see wheeler's drinking getting stupid and throwing the can's out on the way up the trail, I've nearly had fist fight's with drunk's doing just that.

How true............... :mad:

 

[Mrs. Crash]

What you guys completely miss is that a person can learn to a) recognize the effect, and b) compensate for it.

Or be an alcoholic and not see that they have a problem. :rolleyes:

 

[Shifty*EBP*]

No sir, it isn't legal. The limit is simply the limit at which the law says you are too intoxicated no matter who you are.


So not only do you admit you drink and drive on the trail, you admit you drive legally drunk on the trail?


This is EXACTLY why you can still get a DUI with a BAC UNDER 0.08%. Thank you for proving my point to you. Everyone handles it differently.

As for Nuzzy talking about drinking all day and not getting drunk, also not really possible, but not for why you think (here is another example as to why you can still get a DUI at under the limit also).

After Nuzzy consumes the same amount of alchohol as Crash, both one beer, Crash apparently (from what Ive read) would be feeling it a lot more than Nuzzy. Should Crash drive? No. Is his BAC anywhere near the limit? No. Should Nuzzy drive? He might be ok to drive. Is his BAC anywhere near the limit? No.

So now lets say they both have about 5 drinks. Crash is WAY gone now, but Nuzzy is still feeling fine. Since we know the body absorbs about one drink an hour no matter who you are, they have the same BAC too. Should Crash drive? Definitely not. Is he at the legal limit? Most likely, and most likely over. Now, should Nuzzy drive? NO! Is he at the legal limit? Most likely, and most likely over as well.

The point is, that even though they have had the same amout of beer, they both are affected by it differently, and even though Nuzzy is still feeling fine, he has consumed enough alcohol to bring him to the legal limit, which is all it takes to nab a nice hard case of DUI for yourself, even if you dont "feel" drunk. This is exactly why this standard was put into place.

Anyway, what Im getting to is the fact that even though Nuzzy would still be feeling fine, his brain has compensated for the alcohol because its used to seeing it in the system. This is the EXACT reason alcoholics can pass most field sobriety tests and seem perfectly normal (as Nuzzy claims to be). Not trying to call you an alcoholic, but you see the point Im sure, if you drink it enough, the body will get used to it. However, there are certain tests you can not fake, cheat, or pass when you are legally drunk, and there are still certain motor controls and functions in the brain that are affected, even if you still "feel fine", once again, exactly why the standard was put into place.

~T.J.

I still want to know how you can make a DUI stick with a BAC of .06 for example. How will the courts imterpit field tests that can be construed as subjective?

 

[84Toyota4x4]

What you guys completely miss is that a person can learn to a) recognize the effect, and b) compensate for it.

Never saw this until it was quoted, but this is what I have to say about it...

Its true they can recognize it, but its proven that they lose abilities with certain motor skills, and they have no control over that. Eye nystagmus for instance.

Also, compensate? How would you compensate for not having as quick of reflexes? See into the future? :flipoff:

Nuzzy, thanks for the great thread, and thanks everyone for letting it go this long, but in the past few posts Im starting to see it go downhill fast. People (including myself) are starting to try and prove their point to someone else, and shove their opinion onto them a little and vice versa. Im also starting to see more little snippy comments floating around. So, I think Im probably gonna bounce outta here and just observe from now on. Thanks guys! :hi:

~T.J.

 

[84Toyota4x4]

I still want to know how you can make a DUI stick with a BAC of .06 for example. How will the courts imterpit field tests that can be construed as subjective?

If the person is falling down drunk with a BAC of 0.06% you bet I can make it stick. Like you said, alcohol has different effects on different people.

I never said I could nail Nuzzy for a DUI with a BAC of 0.06%, I just said it can AND DOES happen. So for all I know you're a feather-weight that cant handle alcohol, I dont want you thinking you can drink all you want and still be ok to drive if you're under the limit, but cant walk in a straight line. Don't tell me that people obviously know that if they cant walk in a straight line they shouldnt drive, because unfortunately guess what, it happens all the time, lol. Thats all I was saying.

~T.J.

 

[Weifallo]

Eric and I are used to being on different sides of this issue. I'm not out to ruin anyones good time, but I can't make sense of those who are trying to rationalize drinking and driving. I don't have a problem with drinking so long as it is done responsibly. To me, that means

- No stumbling drunks -or-
- Below the legal limit to operate a motor vehicle (which ever comes first)
- No open containers

Feel free to get completely wasted once you're off of the trail and no longer need to drive. Once you get to that point, stay put! Any alcohol related accident/injury in a motor vehicle after that point is unnecessary and completely preventable.

 

[KarlVP]

DUI - driving under the influence (.079 and below)


DWI - driving while intoxicated (.08 and above)

I may have the two mixed up but if the police choose to enforce, you can go to jail for either.

 

[CrustyJeep]

How would you compensate for not having as quick of reflexes?

Slow down? Don't do things you can't handle in an impaired state?

I hardly ever drink on the trail, and when I do, it's one or two piss beers that wouldn't get a midget drunk over lunch or something.

My feeling on the actual topic is, different wheeling situations call for different conduct. Like Porter said, for hardcore technical wheeling, you better be on top of your game or you're gonna fawk up. On a mild trail ride, a couple beers won't hurt anything.

Ultimately it's your choice. I don't personally honor the governments control over what I do in the woods when it comes to this sort of thing. If you wanna get sloppy drunk and play pinball with the trees, that's your choice. Your passenger has the right to bail out if you get dangerous, and likely won't want to ride with you again. You may hurt yourself and get hauled out on a stretcher, straight to jail. It's your choice, your responsibility, and you'll have to deal with whatever concequences come your way. Simple as that.

People in this country have gotten so used to the government holding there hands to the bathroom so they don't bump their heads on the toilet bowl, we've forgotten what it actually means to have to make responsible choices. We just say, oh, .08, the government knows best. If I get to .081 I'll be a menace to society, but at .079 I'll be A-OK. And hey, if anything bad happens, I can always sue whoever served me, right? It's all black and white, thanks to the good ole' government.

 

[Wildman1]

Well the one thing I didn't read/maybe missed was that the trails you are on are considered ROADS. Which means it is illegal to drink and drive even on a trail.

Do I drink on the trail? Nope. Have I? Yep when I was younger. Will I wheel with someone who is drinking on the trail? No I won't. If I came on a run with you then I'll leave, if you came on a run with me then I'll ask you to stop or leave.

 

[MarcW]

Gladly if I wasn't getting good and drunk with kelly :D

both of you should come over :flipoff: i know its allready late though. meh. theres a free beer for both of ya over here anytime.

 

[NotMatt]

I have had a beer or two before during downtime on the trail (broken rig, waiting for others, etc)... on trails I was familiar with and a rig I was experienced driving.

Having said that, I like to think I'm responsible enough to know my limits and know what alcohol does to me, which is why I don't make it a regular habit and I always limit myself to one or two and leave it at that. I would not drink and wheel on an unfamiliar or "dangerous" trail, or with other people I was not familiar with.

There's a difference between having a good time and enjoying a cold one or two, and being a drunk idiot and littering, bashing the shiat out of your rig, or possibly hurting/killing someone or yourself. There's a line, and if it's crossed, I would have no problem telling a person they need to stop and wait until they're sober to drive their rig any further. They can take the advice or leave it. I would hope that someone would do the same for me if I was 3 sheets to the wind and driving my rig.

:corn: