Elbe Hills Focus Group Summary

[CHOP SHOP]

we were all beginners at one point in time! we are all just upset because the trails are getting messed up so they blame it on the experienced people and built rigs when most of it is from the stock rigs and unexperienced people I personally think that if we can put a hard obstacle at the end and beginning of the trail with no ways around the trail is going to be alot less tore up.

fawkin right on:awesomework:

 

[wheeler4x4samota]

fawkin right on:awesomework:

Im not trying to take credit for that idea i thought that ides was already going to happen i heard about it from brian h

 

[megatoy66]

Brian you need to take over Gibby's spot, I think you would do a much better job.
Just my opinion.

 

[wheeler4x4samota]

Brian you need to take over Gibby's spot, I think you would do a much better job.
Just my opinion.

I agree

 

[OlyWaXj]

I saw the paper plates and signs with oneway written in sharpie last time I was up there(kind of funny really).So they want it run "backwards"...hello news flash the busy is in a hole and now both hills are all tore up.That was a bad night,the elbe gremlins came out and it took us 6 hrs to run 3 miles,but hey thats the busy.

Look at least if you run it the old way you have the exit to gravel rite before the "****" starts.If you do get down there "their" way and your unprepaired your FAWKED.

OlyWa

 

[wheeler4x4samota]

I saw the paper plates and signs with oneway written in sharpie last time I was up there(kind of funny really).So they want it run "backwards"...hello news flash the busy is in a hole and now both hills are all tore up.That was a bad night,the elbe gremlins came out and it took us 6 hrs to run 3 miles,but hey thats the busy.

Look at least if you run it the old way you have the exit to gravel rite before the "****" starts.If you do get down there "their" way and your unprepaired your FAWKED.

OlyWa

good point:awesomework:

 

[Tinkerbell]

yes as i said these guys were very new to wheelin. man you gota start somware you know. we have lerned alot since that so dont think we dont know! we are at every cleen up and meetingings and we are lernin

I'm not sure how you can say that, and then come back in another quote saying that you are getting new people all of the time, that don't have any experience in a wheeler b/c they're fresh out of military.... that my friend is called a contradiction... I hope that's not too big of a word for ya :;

Jeremy I think what he is trying to say with trail maintainance has to do with water and mud runoff, and preservation of trees and plants, not making it easier to run. If the holes get too big for the average wheeler that average wheeler makes bypasses which takes the trail off its course in turn causing problems with the powers that be. It isnt to make it lame for us. That is why he is working to get trail ratings to keep the average guy off the busywild and the gatekeepers will insure this. In other words make an entrance to hard for the 33in and under guys to go through. If they are making a full size friendly version of the busy then we can run it. I think its some pretty good compromises concidering the alternative from the powers that be is probably closier.

I half agree with you there. From the pictures Brian posted, I see that there already exist bypasses. If those are maintained and around the trail is maintained (ie water and mud runoff), there should be no reason for the trail to be any easier, as Jeremy thought. I also agree with the idea of putting gate keepers around the trail... if you know how to navigate you're way through that mess, than you should be able to navigate the busy. As far as the width restriction, I think that should be further addressed. It obviously was some sort of last minute add in, in the meeting. It should be brought to attention in the next meeting (and attended by others) that further info can be provided in making that decision and easing the minds of both groups.

 

[pokey]

Brian you need to take over Gibby's spot, I think you would do a much better job.
Just my opinion.

I agree

And your basing this on what? A few posts on a bbs:eeek: Theres a hell of a lot more to this game then what you see and read and Dale is doing a good job. Not saying Brian wouldnt but dissing someone just because you dont like everything thats happening is just petty and wrong. Maybe before deciding that someone needs replacing you need to get more involved beyond a bbs. without getting into to much detail realize that The DNR which is a state agency does NOT have to let us recreate (our sport)on the lands they manage. They allow us to as long as it fits into the larger scheme of things and no damage is being done to the land in their trust.

 

[pokey]

I am all for gate keepers!!

damn, we agree on something tonight:cheer:

 

[Brian H]

And your basing this on what? A few posts on a bbs:eeek: Theres a hell of a lot more to this game then what you see and read and Dale is doing a good job. Not saying Brian wouldnt but dissing someone just because you dont like everything thats happening is just petty and wrong. Maybe before deciding that someone needs replacing you need to get more involved beyond a bbs. without getting into to much detail realize that The DNR which is a state agency does NOT have to let us recreate (our sport)on the lands they manage. They allow us to as long as it fits into the larger scheme of things and no damage is being done to the land in their trust.

I agree with you. Gibby is doing a fine job its all of us that arent doing what we need to do. We need to speak our minds at a meeting instead of on here. I should have made that meeting but I forgot the date and just maybe if i was there ...there wouldnt be a width restriction just yet.. I also dont know enough about what goes on at these meetings to take over that position.Maybe someday I will offer up to give gibby a brake but right now lets see where gibby can take this. I think gate keepers is the way to go and that will give the restrictions without having to cause a huge problem between others. If you cant make it then you dont need to be in there. If you can make it you shouldnt have problems on that trail. By doing this it will keep the one wheeler peelers out of the trail.

 

[421]

I agree with you. Gibby is doing a fine job its all of us that arent doing what we need to do. We need to speak our minds at a meeting instead of on here. I should have made that meeting but I forgot the date and just maybe if i was there ...there wouldnt be a width restriction just yet.. I also dont know enough about what goes on at these meetings to take over that position.Maybe someday I will offer up to give gibby a brake but right now lets see where gibby can take this. I think gate keepers is the way to go and that will give the restrictions without having to cause a huge problem between others. If you cant make it then you dont need to be in there. If you can make it you shouldnt have problems on that trail. By doing this it will keep the one wheeler peelers out of the trail.

but if they make it they can run it right? even if bigger than 82 or107?

 

[Brian H]

but if they make it they can run it right? even if bigger than 82 or107?

Well yes ...... with a happy medium.

 

[421]

Well yes ...... with a happy medium.

ok than thats fine ... but i think gibby should send out pm's for the next meeting time and place.

 

[pokey]

I agree with you. Gibby is doing a fine job its all of us that arent doing what we need to do. We need to speak our minds at a meeting instead of on here. I should have made that meeting but I forgot the date and just maybe if i was there ...there wouldnt be a width restriction just yet.. I also dont know enough about what goes on at these meetings to take over that position.Maybe someday I will offer up to give gibby a brake but right now lets see where gibby can take this. I think gate keepers is the way to go and that will give the restrictions without having to cause a huge problem between others. If you cant make it then you dont need to be in there. If you can make it you shouldnt have problems on that trail. By doing this it will keep the one wheeler peelers out of the trail.

Dont forget Most decissions(90%) are not made at the focus group meetings they come from up the chain (above Nancy). the focus groups are just an oppertunity for the user groups to voice opinions and express to the DNR what our wants and needs are for the facility.

 

[Brian H]

Dont forget Most decissions(90%) are not made at the focus group meetings they come from up the chain (above Nancy). the focus groups are just an oppertunity for the user groups to voice opinions and express to the DNR what our wants and needs are for the facility.

I understand that. I was just saying that if i was there I would have been able to voice my thoughts and it might have helped the restrictions. I wasnt saying that I would make the rules or anything.

 

[426rider]

ok than thats fine ... but i think gibby should send out pm's for the next meeting time and place.

So he should just PM everyone with the meeting time and place? Then he might get what 5 people that care enough to show up. It's not like this was the first focus group meeting ever, just the first that was ORV only with Nancy(she came to Elbe just before Dale got the PNW4WDA rep. job).

How bout we put it in the trail section and if you care, look there. I did post it here as soon as I got the email from Nancy because of the recent discussions about elbe. I must have been a little off in thinking that more might actually care because of the recent discussions.

Next time I post meeting time and dates I will ask for a sticky and make the title Bold and Italic or something, just to bring attention to it.


It sounds like the gatekeepers are part of the plan.

If your bitching about the restrictions on the Busy then get out to the work partys and help build the Ranier Vista into a double black and get the rockcrawl area how you want it. Running the same trail all the time gets a lil boring anyway. Now there will be another decent trail for built rigs at Elbe. (eventually) If the Busy Wild is your mostest favorite trail in the whole wide world now and forever:bling: :worship: , then you will change your rig to make it within the rules.

The involvement from the PNW4WDA side of things hasn't changed in probably 30 years. The involvement from DNR (rules enforcement and new perspective of what is damaging) is what is new. The DNR wants us to recreate on their land but if we keep breaking the rules they will stop us. If they truly didn't want us there they would have stopped us long ago.

Nancy doesn't wheel, but she is trying to learn about it, to better help get us what we want. She has a boss and organization that limits her but if we don't have access to the land she doesn't have a job. She doesn't want things closed down either.

From Gibby's post
[size=+4]There will be another focus group meeting in two months.[/size]
Keep checking back for dates and times

 

[ChevyGurl]

I "believe" and at times I am mistaken but I am pretty sure that was taken before the club split up and actualy became a club. It was my understanding (3rd party) that issues like that are why the group devided in the first place and that the "current" dogpound club is much more trail friendly.

actually that had nothing to do with why the club split.......the white fullsize is actually the new vice president of the club and that is his claim to fame for himself is that he can go anywhere as long as he can bounce off the trees.......he would actually be a main reason we left the club.......Ed and DJ may say they are trail friendly and that they have adopted swamp, but what have they actually done out there??????? NOTHING.....the one time DP hosted a clean up out there Ed and DJ sat on there ass' at camp and then bitched a few months later about the work THEY did on swamp that got ruined.......as everyone who runs out there can see, NOTHING has been done by DP since april.......the P and VP of DP are alot of talk and no action........other members of DP are responsible when they are out there and are equipted to be there.......as for the others of DP who aren't......if you know your rig won't make it 5 feet into the trail without breaking down then your rig does not need to be on the trail......damn I am glad I left DP

 

[wheeler4x4samota]

actually that had nothing to do with why the club split.......the white fullsize is actually the new vice president of the club and that is his claim to fame for himself is that he can go anywhere as long as he can bounce off the trees.......he would actually be a main reason we left the club.......Ed and DJ may say they are trail friendly and that they have adopted swamp, but what have they actually done out there??????? NOTHING.....the one time DP hosted a clean up out there Ed and DJ sat on there ass' at camp and then bitched a few months later about the work THEY did on swamp that got ruined.......as everyone who runs out there can see, NOTHING has been done by DP since april.......the P and VP of DP are alot of talk and no action........other members of DP are responsible when they are out there and are equipted to be there.......as for the others of DP who aren't......if you know your rig won't make it 5 feet into the trail without breaking down then your rig does not need to be on the trail......damn I am glad I left DP

yeah what she said

 

[CHOP SHOP]

actually that had nothing to do with why the club split.......the white fullsize is actually the new vice president of the club and that is his claim to fame for himself is that he can go anywhere as long as he can bounce off the trees.......he would actually be a main reason we left the club.......Ed and DJ may say they are trail friendly and that they have adopted swamp, but what have they actually done out there??????? NOTHING.....the one time DP hosted a clean up out there Ed and DJ sat on there ass' at camp and then bitched a few months later about the work THEY did on swamp that got ruined.......as everyone who runs out there can see, NOTHING has been done by DP since april.......the P and VP of DP are alot of talk and no action........other members of DP are responsible when they are out there and are equipted to be there.......as for the others of DP who aren't......if you know your rig won't make it 5 feet into the trail without breaking down then your rig does not need to be on the trail......damn I am glad I left DP

i have seen these guys at kapowsin lake many times and they will wheel anything regardless of condition. (crap) they destroy (not beat) thier rigs. and the rigs are not very capable. what can you do to improve the swamp trail--- leave it alone . the name says it all. i have met a couple of fellas from thier group that were all right, but when you see them later they dont hang with them anymore. ive repaired a couple rigs for them in kapow and even provided parts that could not be paid for. alot are military and dont know anyone here except the club. some learn quickly and some **** **** up then get stationed elseware. just my opinion but service guys are not the most responsible with vehicles (in any sport). uncle sams helped pay for alot of rigs that some service people dont respect. (they get new rigs so easily and DESTROY them). there is no repair platoon at elbe. PLEASE BE PREPARED.:cheer:

 

[auburnaviator]

just my opinion but service guys are not the most responsible with vehicles (in any sport). uncle sams helped pay for alot of rigs that some service people dont respect. (they get new rigs so easily and DESTROY them). there is no repair platoon at elbe. PLEASE BE PREPARED.:cheer:

Please don't group all service people together in group like that. Granted there are those that tear **** up, but there are those people in every group. You think if I were to go and crash a multi-million dollar plane that they would just pony up a new one for me to go fly again.....Not a chance, I would never see a cockpit again. All I'm asking is don't judge new people by what you've seen others do in the past.