Elbe Hills Focus Group

[Gibby1]

Just because you can fit on a trail or even find the trail for that matter doesn't mean you should be on it...

I, on the other hand, can and should... I've lived here for 38 yrs... I've paid my share of taxes... And have just as much right as any other American to enjoy the outdoors...

This attitude that you have toward anyone in a fullsize rig is pretty childish...

Again, IQ test, son...

Your displaying purely selfish behavior and show that you don't care about the sport, only what YOU can and cannot do. People with your type of attitudes ARE the cause of the problems. You've clearly demonstrated in your posts a complete lack of understanding about how ORV parks are developed and maintained and WHY this happen the way that they happen.

FYI, that wasn't a STOCK toyota. 38's don't fit on a stock toyota, nor does it come with ARBs front and rear and crawler gears.

You obviously haven't paid attention to the rest of the threads on this subject. I and my club are spearheading the efforts, and have gained approval to rebuild the Rainier Vista into a full size friendly, double black diamond trail to give the full size rigs somewhere to play, if they don't fit on the busy. Like, I said, you don't know what your talking about.

Maybe you want to rethink this statement now?

This attitude that you have toward anyone in a fullsize rig is pretty childish...

My goals are to improve and maintain the area for ALL 4x4s, not just the full size rigs or as you seem to think, specifically for you!

 

[Brian H]

Did you not hear me.........

[B]Let's stop the pissing matches.[/B]

This meeting is in less than a few days time, we can get our opinions out on the table, and some how have understanding of EVERYONES expectations.

until then, though....

what about the positive sides of this meeting, can we inform the users that this SPECIFIC trail was built for SWB rigs, and it is being abused. the focus is to PROTECT the trail

to stop more abuse, before it gets shut down completely.

IF AT THE MEETING, we are able to voice opinions to open it up to fullsize rigs, and just create another tight and twisty for SWB - since the BUSY is already being ran by fullsizers now. this has been discussed. would this work, then a few years down the line - we can fight about the new tight and twisty trail being abused again.

*again like Pat stated;

Do some research on the area you plan to head out to to go offroading at, most of the few trails we have here are VERY CLEARLY spelled out as to what is allowed or not allowed, every trail has requirements / rules and is owned by the state. so the information is there...

here is a link; *just in case some do not know.

http://www.dnr.wa.gov/

http://www.dnr.wa.gov/base/recreation.html

http://www.pnw4wda.org/trails/washington/index.htm

and a nice copy & paste of ELBE info;

---------------------

The Busywild Trail is the most well known trail. Named after the Busy Wild Creek that runs through part of it, this trail lives up to its name also. People say it

 

[426rider]

Dude, you really don't get it do you??? Where do you get off saying who can and can't???

I didn't tell you or anyone that you can't go anywhere.

 

[dirtygoat]

Did you not hear me.........

What, I'm the only one here???

They started it...

 

[Brian H]

What, I'm the only one here???

They started it...

Get over it....fullsize/full body (Excluding the buggies running the fullsize axles 82" ans under )rigs really have no right on the busy. You just cant fit.........People that dont believe in the size restriction are the ones that get shat closed down.

 

[426rider]

What I would like is to find out how to stop the wheelbase restrictions, what can the 4x4 community do to keep this trail, and can we get a schedule on when the DNR will be on the trail doing their fixes to it so maybe we could have a few wheelers there to make suggestions on how to fix it without paving it.

 

[dirtygoat]

Your displaying purely selfish behavior and show that you don't care about the sport, only what YOU can and cannot do. People with your type of attitudes ARE the cause of the problems. You've clearly demonstrated in your posts a complete lack of understanding about how ORV parks are developed and maintained and WHY this happen the way that they happen.

FYI, that wasn't a STOCK toyota. 38's don't fit on a stock toyota, nor does it come with ARBs front and rear and crawler gears.

You obviously haven't paid attention to the rest of the threads on this subject. I and my club are spearheading the efforts, and have gained approval to rebuild the Rainier Vista into a full size friendly, double black diamond trail to give the full size rigs somewhere to play, if they don't fit on the busy. Like, I said, you don't know what your talking about.

Maybe you want to rethink this statement now? My goals are to improve and maintain the area for ALL 4x4s, not just the full size rigs or as you seem to think, specifically for you!

You don't know me, and have no idea what your talking about...

Your friend should probably start out on some easier trails before denting every piece of sheetmetal on his toyota doing the busy...

Spearheading??? How appropriate...

 

[gasman1]

There is a lot of different disscutions going here, from SWB verses LWB and no one caring to show up at the meetings and just complain about the outcome.

I believe the biggest problem is the "LACK OF WHAT IS GOING ON".

I am willing to bet that the majority of the 4x4 comminty does not know what is going on. I am new to the online 4x4 community, and non-of the people i know off line knew what was going on untill i told them. The lack of getting the community involved by the DNR is to blame. I just went to the DNR web site and did a search on "Elbe Hills Restriction" and came back with a 461 page report. Who the hell is going to read all that, not me. If it was not for all the discution about it here i would not know about it. Outside this forum (except PSO) there is no mention of it any where by any one i have come accross.

We as a 4x4 community need to come together and make sure all in the 4x4 community get involed no matter what the wheelbase of our choice is. This is another example of the goverment telling us what to do instead of trying to get the use parties involved (excuse my spelling i went to MT).

Yes, we need to have orginised work partys to keep the trails in shape, instead of letting them go to hell. There are many users that are not in any organised club but are willing to pitch in to help with the trails if they know about it, i am one of them. There needs to be a way to get others outside the clubs involved. But if we have a club tell us you are one, and dont matter unless you get involved with us, that is a big:fawkdancesmiley:
I respect the clubs and the people that run them as long as the remember where they came from how they got there. Every one of us should matter in our opionion and should be represented in that matter.

We need to be involved in the desition making on what happens to our trail system or we will not have one.

By the way the DNR is a goverment agency and we know how the government likes to keep us in the dark untill its to late......

 

[reddog64]

The quad and Motorcycle guys have the same argument. When is a motorcycle trail wide enough for quads, when is a quad trail wide enough for a narrow 4x4, when is a narrow 4x4 trail wide enough for a fullsize 4x4? When does it end. Now if someone wanted to start wheeling their tank, should we let em go plow through all our trails making them wide enough for him? Like said before in fewer words, just because you can fit between the trees somehow doesn't mean you belong. At this point I think the busywild can be done in a built fullsize probably without much damage to the environment, but not with a fullsize and an idiot behind the wheel.


I think everyone that cares should show up to this meeting.

This is a near perfect statement! :awesomework:

 

[CHOP SHOP]

I believe the biggest problem is the "LACK OF WHAT IS GOING ON".

I am willing to bet that the majority of the 4x4 comminty does not know what is going on. I am new to the online 4x4 community, and non-of the people i know off line knew what was going on untill i told them. The lack of getting the community involved by the DNR is to blame. I just went to the DNR web site and did a search on "Elbe Hills Restriction" and came back with a 461 page report. Who the hell is going to read all that, not me. If it was not for all the discution about it here i would not know about it. Outside this forum (except PSO) there is no mention of it any where by any one i have come accross.

this is what I have been saying= nobody I knew had a clue. none are online.:booo:
this is my favorite, quit e *****in and do something. :masturbanana[1]: I am new here too and no clue how much **** is kept quit on the internet when the stupidest **** is broadcast everywhere.

I have no prob helping out without being in a club.:awesomework:

 

[Gibby1]

You don't know me, and have no idea what your talking about...

Your friend should probably start out on some easier trails before denting every piece of sheetmetal on his toyota doing the busy...

Spearheading??? How appropriate...

My friend, HAS run the busy before, and IN that rig. You're completely missing the point that just about everyone else is trying to tell you.

The point of that post originally was to simply show you that if a Toyota of that size dents every panel, there's no way a full size Blazer is going to go through without rubbing and scrapping trees. What you ALSO don't understand that is that pivoting off trees, driving up tree trunks etc, is NOT acceptable to the DNR. DO YOU GET THE POINT YET? If not, go back and read all the other threads on this subject. It's all been explained before.

You're right I don't know you. I can only go by what you've said here and that my friend, is exactly what I based my opinion on. Please read carefully, I said that it's ATTITUDES like yours that are the problem. Pat has it right, buit your rig to fit the trail, don't make the trails fit your rig. A full bodied blazer does NOT belong on the busywild PER the way that the DNR wants the trail used. Can I make that ANY clearer for you? Yes, the DNR DOES have the right to limit your access to a particular trail or section of the trail so get over it. Just because it's public doesn't mean that they have to allow YOU or your rig on it, or anyone else's rig for that matter.

 

[reddog64]

So i guess the 4 idiots with their trailers in the ditch and jack knifed across the road probably shouldnt go up there either...

Hell we were the only ones that stopped to help...


Brian H - You have no right to tell people they dont belong somewhere.
If i see a trail i know i dont fit, i'm not going to go down it. Do i care if my K5 gets body damage, not really, but i'm not gonna go looking for it. Will I run the Busy, Probably not, cause i know it's not for me. But dont tell anyone where they can go on public lands, that we all own.
If DNR decides to restrict it, I'll abide by it. But i think having ass holes like you tell me where i cant go is totally un called for and childish.
Totally childish... and I like how you "Excluded" Buggies.. my drw dana 60 with H1's is over 82 by a little with tires... so dont tell me buggies arent that much narrower.

I now know why i left PNW4WDA and another unnamed club and sold my ****...

 

[dirtygoat]

OK, I've seen the light...

I'm gonna go build me a Daihatsu Rocky and join the fun...:masturbanana[1]:

"Have you ever thrown a hotdog down a hallway???":eeek:

Your stories grow tiresome... I'll be wheeling my fullsize if anyone needs to get ahold of me...:fawkdancesmiley:

 

[Gibby1]

There is a lot of different disscutions going here, from SWB verses LWB and no one caring to show up at the meetings and just complain about the outcome.

I believe the biggest problem is the "LACK OF WHAT IS GOING ON".

I am willing to bet that the majority of the 4x4 comminty does not know what is going on. I am new to the online 4x4 community, and non-of the people i know off line knew what was going on untill i told them. The lack of getting the community involved by the DNR is to blame. I just went to the DNR web site and did a search on "Elbe Hills Restriction" and came back with a 461 page report. Who the hell is going to read all that, not me. If it was not for all the discution about it here i would not know about it. Outside this forum (except PSO) there is no mention of it any where by any one i have come accross.

We as a 4x4 community need to come together and make sure all in the 4x4 community get involed no matter what the wheelbase of our choice is. This is another example of the goverment telling us what to do instead of trying to get the use parties involved (excuse my spelling i went to MT).

Yes, we need to have orginised work partys to keep the trails in shape, instead of letting them go to hell. There are many users that are not in any organised club but are willing to pitch in to help with the trails if they know about it, i am one of them. There needs to be a way to get others outside the clubs involved. But if we have a club tell us you are one, and dont matter unless you get involved with us, that is a big:fawkdancesmiley:
I respect the clubs and the people that run them as long as the remember where they came from how they got there. Every one of us should matter in our opionion and should be represented in that matter.

We need to be involved in the desition making on what happens to our trail system or we will not have one.

By the way the DNR is a goverment agency and we know how the government likes to keep us in the dark untill its to late......

Gasman, an identical thread was posted on just about every NW based forum that I could find. If you find more that I missed, go ahead and post up on those threads if you wish.

Steve Russel also distributed flyers to all the local 4wd shops about 1 month ago, announcing this meeting and encouraging people to show up. I think his website might be down though, I was going to link to the flyer that he distributed. The people that don't know, have to go search out for the information. No one's going to go knocking on their doors to let them know.

This is also a LONG story - many years old. What everyone is jumping about is one chapter in a long, long story.

 

[Brian H]

So i guess the 4 idiots with their trailers in the ditch and jack knifed across the road probably shouldnt go up there either...

Hell we were the only ones that stopped to help...


Brian H - You have no right to tell people they dont belong somewhere.
If i see a trail i know i dont fit, i'm not going to go down it. Do i care if my K5 gets body damage, not really, but i'm not gonna go looking for it. Will I run the Busy, Probably not, cause i know it's not for me. But dont tell anyone where they can go on public lands, that we all own.
If DNR decides to restrict it, I'll abide by it. But i think having ass holes like you tell me where i cant go is totally un called for and childish.
Totally childish... and I like how you "Excluded" Buggies.. my drw dana 60 with H1's is over 82 by a little with tires... so dont tell me buggies arent that much narrower.

I now know why i left PNW4WDA and another unnamed club and sold my ****...

Body wise there are much narrower. They fit throuhg everything. Full body fullsize rigs will get wedged in the busy and again dont belong in there. One thing that pisses me off is when the"buggies" get thrown in the fullsize catagory just for there axle size.

 

[Brian H]

Gasman, an identical thread was posted on just about every NW based forum that I could find. If you find more that I missed, go ahead and post up on those threads if you wish.

Steve Russel also distributed flyers to all the local 4wd shops about 1 month ago, announcing this meeting and encouraging people to show up. I think his website might be down though, I was going to link to the flyer that he distributed. The people that don't know, have to go search out for the information. No one's going to go knocking on their doors to let them know.

This is also a LONG story - many years old. What everyone is jumping about is one chapter in a long, long story.

I think what he is getting at is to not only pimp it on the net but more so to those that arent on the net ...kinda like what Steve has done...Flyers.

 

[pokey]

every tripower I have is full of JEEP RACING. not rocks not trail rides. I have even had my truck in the tripower twice. nothing for me there. I dont know all about the PNW. I have been around wheeling along time (not 2 or 3 years) and your right I dont know **** about the PNW.
I dont want to join. out of all the people I know, not the people here, not your buddies, not gibby, not steve. the only folks I know in the PNW are jeep racers. and most jeep racers that do have a wheeler, it is second priority to thier race jeep. no points for trail riding! and most racers wheelers are mildly built rigs (jeeps on 33s or 35s).

I have heard gibby state before he hasnt got the support the racers get from the PNW. steve has also stated he did not get the support either and steped down at elbe. now gibby wants to do the same.

explain to me where the PNW gets it funds?

if the PNW works for you and pokey thats great. you and pokey are JEEP owners and I might say you both wheel the average jeep I was refering to.(mildly built jeep on 33s or 35s).

no one here wheelin a buggy, toyota, scout, ford, chev, dodge, or sami etc has tried to spread to PNW goodness like you two, why is that?

PNW seems to always be there for the EVENTS not the wheelers.:booo:

WOW you really dont have a clue do you:haha:

 

[CHOP SHOP]

I think what he is getting at is to not only pimp it on the net but more so to those that arent on the net ...kinda like what Steve has done...Flyers.

or maybe a lexan rectangle say 10x12 inches to cover elbe news and updates on the sign at the parking lot. they have done this at the dunes for years.

 

[gasman1]

I got Steves E-mail and posted it on this forum when the question arrised about what is going on with the ELbe ORV area back about november. At the same time he was putting the flyier's in the 4x4 shops.

I have to the 4x4 shops three times sence than and have not seen his flyer yet.

Thats my point if i was not on Steve's mailing list and did not visit this forum, I WOULD NOT KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON. HENSE, THER ARE MANY OTHERS THAT DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING............

 

[Gibby1]

or maybe a lexan rectangle say 10x12 inches to cover elbe news and updates on the sign at the parking lot. they have done this at the dunes for years.

Brad, that's a great idea! The process is slow as we've been at this for almost 2 years trying to get new signage but I bet that idea would pass with the DNR without ANY problems.

Bring that one up at the meeting. I don't see any reason why everyone wouldn't support that.