Elbe on the chopping block?

Travis1 · Jan 13, 2011

I just received this in an email, can anyone here closer to Elbe confirm this before I forward on?

ALERT, ALERT, ALERT !!!

If you have ever ridden Sahara Creek Trails (outside of Elbe, WA), built and maintained by Pierce County Chapter, please send an email to the address below. Do Not Wait; the next time DNR can close an area in your neck of the woods.

Via a phone conversation with Mike Lentz (who received the information from a DNR employee)....flat out, Elbe is scheduled to be closed. Not just Sahara Creek & Nicholson Trail System. All of Elbe DNR lands: equestrian, skiers and ORV. Facilities will be decommissioned and roads will be blocked. There are other DNR facilities on the list, but I do not know which ones.

It is extremely important that people write emails or make phone calls immediately. We have only a 24 hour window to give our input.

Points to make could include:

beyatch · Jan 13, 2011

umm, geez.
I will know more information tonight after our club meeting, but as I understand it now.....I was under the impression that Elbe would be closed during the week during logging but open during the weekend. I have not heard of what you are referring to as of yet.

I'm sure that some people on this board that went to the Washington State meeing for the Westside on Saturday might have some more information.

Dirk? Pokey? Diannimal77?

CHOP SHOP · Jan 13, 2011

I have received three texts from NON internet WHEELERS in the last couple day as to if elbe was closing cuz they heard it was getting gated up.

Travis1 · Jan 13, 2011

beyatch said:
umm, geez.
I will know more information tonight after our club meeting, but as I understand it now.....I was under the impression that Elbe would be closed during the week during logging but open during the weekend. I have not heard of what you are referring to as of yet.

I'm sure that some people on this board that went to the Washington State meeing for the Westside on Saturday might have some more information.

Dirk? Pokey? Diannimal77?

This may not be an immediate eminent thing.

This may be something starting in July of this year, as the DNR's biannual budget closes in June of this year.

If this is for future budget planning purposes, I'm not sure how much would be public enough yet for people to realize what is going on. If no one knows here, I'll start making phone calls.

If this is a budget planning thing, ALL DNR ORV areas would be getting discussed for closure. No money for enforcement ultimately means no trails.

crash2 · Jan 13, 2011

I heard the same thing.

Corey Y · Jan 13, 2011

I tried to warn people. :corn:

crash2 · Jan 13, 2011

Sticking you head in the sand will get us no place...

Why we as a usergroup NEED to be pro-active and "work" together.

CHOP SHOP · Jan 13, 2011

Travis said:
No money for enforcement ultimately mean new trails will be everywhere..

Ill take what comes down the line.

jeepmauler · Jan 13, 2011

Travis said:
No money for enforcement ultimately means new trails are everwhere.

More accurate

Travis1 · Jan 13, 2011

Money Mark said:
Don't get too cocky there big guy. If you want people to listen, you'll change your tone.

I've tried saying this before myself, about 1,000 different ways.

The truth is, no matter how you say something, if it's bad news coming way down in the future; especially if you can't cite facts and figures without revealing your sources and breaking that trust. People usually don't want to believe you; they won't believe it until it's on their doorstep at which point they forgot about that person "crying wolf".

If the 2011-2013 budget cuts are the cause of this, ALL ORV DNR land is in extreme jeopardy. And if they start cutting trails because they don't have enforcement to back them up, they won't have volunteer groups to support them anymore because L&I won't let that happen without DNR on the ground in the area.

If Elbe is on the chopping block even for consideration, I would suggest you guys go start asking hard questions about Reiter and expense (maintenance/E&E) budget.

Personally, I'm trying to get some info out of the DNR to go talk to a couple state congress members that know who I am, attempt to persaude them in to supporting the ORV areas and try to get some money for E&E (not even trail maintenance). Question is, will I have to sell my soul in the process.

CHOP SHOP · Jan 13, 2011

I never though that a "ruined reiter" could ruin Elbe.

If we get Elbe closed cuz the funds are needed to further the reiter project, then im gonna start wheeling izzy homies.

Im gonna be pissed if 3 parks have to close so an "area" that was just fine without being a park can become lamer than it was before.

I hope Im not on the right track.

Damnyankee · Jan 13, 2011

CHOP SHOP said:
I never though that a "ruined reiter" could ruin Elbe.

If we get Elbe closed cuz the funds are needed to further the reiter project, then im gonna start wheeling izzy homies.

Im gonna be pissed if 3 parks have to close so an "area" that was just fine without being a park can become lamer than it was before.

I hope Im not on the right track.

i hope so as well.

Mark m. · Jan 13, 2011

CHOP SHOP said:
I never though that a "ruined reiter" could ruin Elbe.

If we get Elbe closed cuz the funds are needed to further the reiter project, then im gonna start wheeling izzy homies.

Im gonna be pissed if 3 parks have to close so an "area" that was just fine without being a park can become lamer than it was before.

I hope Im not on the right track.

Close a good place to built a worthless place. That sounds about right.

crash2 · Jan 13, 2011

Your talking about 2 seperate things here.

One being for E&E and operation

One being for new part development. To blame one on the other is silly,

Money Mark · Jan 13, 2011

4 words: Washington State Access Pass. If Elbe needs $$$, the Pass is how you'll get it.

We're tied into Elbe as much as you're tied into Reiter. Now is NOT the time to point fingers, make accusations and divide the ORV community.

Ugh......I hate hyping that "hippy BS".......but it's true.:;

Time to man up bitches.:ninja:

Travis1 · Jan 13, 2011

CHOP SHOP said:
I never though that a "ruined reiter" could ruin Elbe.

If we get Elbe closed cuz the funds are needed to further the reiter project, then im gonna start wheeling izzy homies.

Im gonna be pissed if 3 parks have to close so an "area" that was just fine without being a park can become lamer than it was before.

I hope Im not on the right track.

If you typed this in response to my post, I didn't say that.

With anything in government, there's two pools of budget that aren't easily moved from one to the other. You have something like capital budget that goes toward building and expanding, then you have something like expense budget that goes toward day to day maintenance/support.

What we have is an expense budget problem. Without at least E&E, we can't control the usage at ORV Parks. We also can't have volunteers out there in the name of DNR doing anything due to L&I requirements. That ultimately means the DNR closes land. Lets not get in to the real world logic fallacy argument of closing areas, we have to deal with gov't logic on this.

What I am going to do is attempt to keep E&E in Tahuya (we don't have funding after June right now), if I can do that we stand a good chance at keeping things open there; the question is, what will I have to promise in return. If I can't successfully argue to keep E&E budget for there, I think we are fawked.

Money Mark · Jan 13, 2011

Mark m. said:
Close a good place to built a worthless place. That sounds about right.

Don't jump to conclusions.:eeek: I thought you were wiser than that.:booo:

Travis1 · Jan 13, 2011

crash said:
Your talking about 2 seperate things here.

One being for E&E and operation

One being for new part development. To blame one on the other is silly,

Exactly, I just took longer than you to type that out. :haha:

crash2 · Jan 13, 2011

Travis said:
If you typed this in response to my post, I didn't say that.

With anything in government, there's two pools of budget that aren't easily moved from one to the other. You have something like capital budget that goes toward building and expanding, then you have something like expense budget that goes toward day to day maintenance/support.

What we have is an expense budget problem. Without at least E&E, we can't control the usage at ORV Parks. We also can't have volunteers out there in the name of DNR doing anything due to L&I requirements. That ultimately means the DNR closes land. Lets not get in to the real world logic fallacy argument of closing areas, we have to deal with gov't logic on this.

What I am going to do is attempt to keep E&E in Tahuya (we don't have funding after June right now), if I can do that we stand a good chance at keeping things open there; the question is, what will I have to promise in return. If I can't successfully argue to keep E&E budget for there, I think we are fawked.

E&E is probably the #1 factor.