Elbe Rock crawl and Rainier Vista

dirtygoat · May 17, 2010

Casey had a great idea of how to build the spot at the bottom of the hill...

We could make a hard line on the left going up the start of the hill... It doesn't have to be real long just crazy difficult... There's plenty of winch points down there... That would leave the right line as is... When wet the easy line would still take some skill to get up...

Where the rocks at the bottom are sitting now is a bad location... Some of the rocks already have rolled down the hill into the woods... If a rig flops on those rocks toward the downhill side, they could be really ****ed...

Leaving the old logging road as is would allow people to stop and watch without blocking the trail for others wanting to take the easy line...

But, who am I to say...

As long as it's going to contain a rig if it flops I'm cool with it... I just don't want to see a rig end up down in the trees and someone getting really hurt...

Gibby1 · May 17, 2010

dirtygoat said:
Casey had a great idea of how to build the spot at the bottom of the hill...

We could make a hard line on the left going up the start of the hill... It doesn't have to be real long just crazy difficult... There's plenty of winch points down there... That would leave the right line as is... When wet the easy line would still take some skill to get up...

Where the rocks at the bottom are sitting now is a bad location... Some of the rocks already have rolled down the hill into the woods... If a rig flops on those rocks toward the downhill side, they could be really ****ed...

Leaving the old logging road as is would allow people to stop and watch without blocking the trail for others wanting to take the easy line...

But, who am I to say...

As long as it's going to contain a rig if it flops I'm cool with it... I just don't want to see a rig end up down in the trees and someone getting really hurt...

The rocks at the bottom of the hill have only been put there for storage. That's where the dump truck put them so that they wouldn't be in the way until we could get them moved. They're not going to remain there at all.

Finally, the gatekeeper. I don't know if you'll get this far on Saturday but if you do, start by leaving the mainline to the right side of the tree open. Begin by working on the left side of the tree and have some fun making difficult play lines to get on the trail. Bury the rocks a sufficient amount to be safe and secure, but this is an open crawl section and it can be whatever we want. The central section will be the gatekeeper but for right now I'd like to keep it open until we know that we've got everything done on the trail. If you get the left side down, you can put in a simple gatekeeper of 3-4 rocks up the middle that will keep the quads and little guys out who chose to ignore the sign. We can always move 3-4 rocks to make the changes but I don't want to move 30-40 rocks to get an excavator past the gatekeeper.

This is very similar to what Casey has mentioned.

JAWS · May 17, 2010

Gibby said:
The rocks at the bottom of the hill have only been put there for storage. That's where the dump truck put them so that they wouldn't be in the way until we could get them moved. They're not going to remain there at all.

This is very similar to what Casey has mentioned.

No i just stated that you said you were going to have a gatekeeper and it has not been done yet so the risk of unskilled rigs and drivers putting them in a bad situation is likly.

Luey N I walked the trail N discussed with one another what we felt would be the best way for ALL the ORV users. But its ur deal Dale do what you want. I just feel their are better ways to make the rock crawl happen more effectily N others seem to agree. For the recorred this was disscused as a group at the meeting last thursday nite. If you can what others think or want. Make a poll N see what the users would like.

wilbilt · May 17, 2010

If worst comes to worst said:
I think you are going to have a hard time finding anyone else paying this guy $800 for the small amount of work he gets done in a day. Just my two cents:awesomework:

wilbilt · May 17, 2010

Oops I fawked that up, but you get the point.

Anthony1 · May 17, 2010

It's OUR trails, is it not?:eeek:

I say whoever can get a machine up there just do it and make it the way they and Nancy wants.:beer:

You don't need a big excavator to move those rocks. With the proper chain wrapping technique and a fairly heavy rig you can move them.:awesomework:

jeffroadams · May 17, 2010

I think the point here is that unless its Gibby's vision its going to be wrong, thats what I got out of saturday

biglug · May 17, 2010

when my truck went over the rocks it was fun so i say good job to all that had a hand in movin th rocks. the only people that are going to think it was done wrong are WEB WHEELERS

JAWS · May 17, 2010

Anthony said:
It's OUR trails, is it not?:eeek:

I say whoever can get a machine up there just do it and make it the way they and Nancy wants.:beer:

You don't need a big excavator to move those rocks. With the proper chain wrapping technique and a fairly heavy rig you can move them.:awesomework:

x2 safe:awesomework:

jeffroadams · May 17, 2010

biglug said:
when my truck went over the rocks it was fun so i say good job to all that had a hand in movin th rocks. The only people that are going to think it was done wrong are web wheelers

amen

JAWS · May 17, 2010

wilbilt said:
Oops I fawked that up, but you get the point.

How much would it take to cover ur fuel to fix it before the big weekend?. I mean if some one was willing to pay to make sure its done correctly?

My concern is that if we dont comply with Nancys/DNRs wishes N demands. (that realy arert that out of line) Than they wont let us do things like this. If we cant figure out a simple rock climb N make it fun N SAFE, for EVERYONE. Than we should all sell your wheelers N get sk8 boards.

wilbilt · May 17, 2010

JAWS said:
How much would it take to cover ur fuel to fix it before the big weekend?. I mean if some one was willing to pay to make sure its done correctly?

My concern is that if we dont comply with Nancys/DNRs wishes N demands. (that realy arert that out of line) Than they wont let us do things like this. If we cant figure out a simple rock climb N make it fun N SAFE, for EVERYONE. Than we should all sell your wheelers N get sk8 boards.

It cost us $200 in diesel to haul the machine and run it for the day. The only problem is our truck will be working this weekend so there is a slim chance of getting a machine up there this coming weekend.

ain'tstuckjustresting · May 17, 2010

The money isn't the point. Will and I covered the fuel out of our pockets and had no 2nd thoughts. It's the fact that none of us have ever built anything like that before and without some experienced instruction hauling all the way up there is a waste of time. I thought some people that had built such a thing were going to be there Sat but it was just us few guessing. Horus has some great vision on rock placement but I don't think he claims to know anymore than the rest of us. The 160 is too big for the job on the lower section so we won't be bringing that up again.

I'm still a little pissed at how Dale decided to handle the situation and he hasn't bothered to respond.

If someone doesn't step up to help organize the job our machines are staying home.

Chad

rollnhvy · May 17, 2010

I dont believe anybody is blaming anything on you guys. I think Casey is just coming up with ideas to fix it :beer:

JAWS · May 17, 2010

ain'tstuckjustresting said:
The money isn't the point. Will and I covered the fuel out of our pockets and had no 2nd thoughts. It's the fact that none of us have ever built anything like that before and without some experienced instruction hauling all the way up there is a waste of time. I thought some people that had built such a thing were going to be there Sat but it was just us few guessing. Horus has some great vision on rock placement but I don't think he claims to know anymore than the rest of us. The 160 is too big for the job on the lower section so we won't be bringing that up again.

I'm still a little pissed at how Dale decided to handle the situation and he hasn't bothered to respond.

If someone doesn't step up to help organize the job our machines are staying home.

Chad

Well i think you guys did a great job. I think most of the time its better to just get in their get ur hands dirty N play in by ear. Most of the time when people are trying to make someone elses vison come ture it just doent work. Dale should have got his club or assocation to help him if he had a certain way he wanted it. I try N use the good old K.I.S.S method KEEP. IT. SIMPLE. STUPID. N dont over think things to much.

ain'tstuckjustresting · May 17, 2010

Reply to Joe

I realize that. I just don't wan't to use up all our freebies with the company and not get the max amount of work done. If someone proposes a tangeble plan for a full days work and the equip needed I would consider helping out again.

JAWS · May 17, 2010

ain'tstuckjustresting said:
I realize that. I just don't wan't to use up all our freebies with the company and not get the max amount of work done. If someone proposes a tangeble plan for a full days work and the equip needed I would consider helping out again.

I have a plan on how to get the rocks used good N safe. I will run it by you if you dont think its a good idea simply dont use it no harm no foul. 253-332-1307

Horus · May 17, 2010

Gibby said:
No, you missed my point. Horus had all the instructions and said that he would look after it. I'm trying to figure out where the miscommunication happened.

I read your pm twice trying to wrap my head around it. This last Saturday I ran the lower Rainier Vista for maybe the second or third time in my life. By the time I got to the top I was even more confused. Once I saw the 160 I knew it would not fit down that trail. I set to work helping the guys who showed up building the section I did know about.

As far as the upper section goes I tried to incorperate everything I had learned wheelin heavy rock trails at Reiter. When we had a big rock that could be stood up tall, I placed it on the driver side. This makes the experience of driving up and over it far more enjoyable for the driver who can now see what is going on. The goal was to make it very hard but doable with a very capable rig.

We kicked ass and did nothing wrong Saturday. The whole upper section is ready to go. Huge thanks to Jeff, Wil, Chad, Anthony and Corey for being there and all your help building this trail. Thank you very much. Lets go wheel it!

Gibby, if you want everything done your way then you need to be there to see to it. I had a wheelin trip planned for Saturday with friends coming out to wheel with me before I got your 25 minute pm. Friday was my work party day. I did the best I could to squeeze the most production out of what I had. Micromanagement is not my style. Jeff and Wil know their equipment while Corey and Anthony know the trail and overall plan far better than I did. All I wanted to do was provide creative direction concerning rock placement and overall trail construction without stepping on anyone's toes.

Thanks again guys. :beer::beer: