Full hydro steering on my Toyota sucks testicles...

TacomaJD · Jul 16, 2014

I've got the typical Trail Gear full hydro steering kit on my rig now. 6" double ended ram, 1650psi / 4.5gpm pump, etc. I have 2 things that need to be addressed with it eventually.

1.) I want to swap to an 8" ram because it currently does not turn sharp for ****. I have to do 87 point turns just to follow everyone else through tight woods and it's getting really annoying. Probably going to go with an 8" ram from TG so I can use my clevis mounts and all, then just shorten my tie rods to accomodate.

2.) I can't get the damn belt to stop sqealing. It squeals on crank up then quits after a minute, EVERY TIME. Then it squeals bad when I turn far enough to bottom out the steering ram one way or the other. Again, really fawking annoying. I just put a brand new Gates 9440 belt (has teeth) on it and it's at proper tension, which is the belt called for in this application. It's alot better than it was with the previous toothed belt that was on it when I got it, or the solid v belt that I put on it at a later date that sucked even worse.

Reckon something is wrong with the pump making it harder to turn than usual? I thought about putting a different pump on it like a Jeep TC pump or something, but wonder what sort of bracket I would need, or if it would mount to my current bracket? I'm learning here, as usual.

I haven't changed out the steering fluid yet, but it has standard power steering fluid in it, fresh from when I got it back from Angry fab a few months ago. Although, royal purple is recommended, I just don't see it making that much of a difference in regards to fixing this shitty belt squealing issue.

I'm sick of hearing it sqeal and sick of the shitty turning radius. I just want the thing to turn like it's supposed to, and not make any retard noises. Any input on trying a different pump if I go that route? Or what may be wrong here? Orbital? Don't know much about those either.

June dog · Jul 16, 2014

My jeep steered like **** when I first built it. I had a surplus center 2" ram with a Dana 60 and 42's. It wouldn't turn for **** if you was in any bind what so ever . I changed it to the 2 1/2 " ram ( from surplus center) and it's a world of difference! I know this doesn't have crap to do with a squealing belt but it solved my problems of hard turning. :driving:

TacomaJD · Jul 16, 2014

Re:

Mine turns fairly easy, but I can feel a "bump-bump-bump-bump-bump" in the steering wheel when turning most of the time. Not sure if that's the belt slipping or what. It does better than ever with this new belt, but still doesn't feel as up to par as I think it should be. And that squealing **** is on my last nerve. I mean why does it squeal? It's a typical setup known to work pretty decently. And I checked all pulleys for worn bearings, all seem to be in good condition.

June dog · Jul 16, 2014

Re:

TacomaJD said:
Mine turns fairly easy, but I can feel a "bump-bump-bump-bump-bump" in the steering wheel when turning most of the time. Not sure if that's the belt slipping or what. It does better than ever with this new belt, but still doesn't feel as up to par as I think it should be. And that squealing **** is on my last nerve. I mean why does it squeal? It's a typical setup known to work pretty decently. And I checked all pulleys for worn bearings, all seem to be in good condition.

The squealing is usually a sign of a loose belt, but I know you've checked and rechecked that. Maybe the pump bearing is trying to seize up :dunno:

and maybe why it don't feel loose. Wish I had the answer for you and hate that it sounds like you have about the same luck with **** as I do. It gets old after a while! :drinkers:

RustyC · Jul 16, 2014

If your steering shaft has u joints in it check those for the source of the bump bump bump.

TacomaJD · Jul 16, 2014

RustyC said:
If your steering shaft has u joints in it check those for the source of the bump bump bump.

No, it's in the hydraulic system. Like fighting against the steering wheel, not a mechanical clunk.

June dog said:
The squealing is usually a sign of a loose belt, but I know you've checked and rechecked that. Maybe the pump bearing is trying to seize up and maybe why it don't feel loose. Wish I had the answer for you and hate that it sounds like you have about the same luck with **** as I do. It gets old after a while!

Yeah it's always the **** that's aggravating to pinpoint. I'd rather something more expensive break, be able to look it, and say yep, that right there is broke. This troubleshooting **** is for the birds. I don't have the patience for it.

pholmann · Jul 16, 2014

I'm not sure about the bigger yota axles but the mini truck axles you can't run an 8" ram. You'll break the knuckles off if your not careful with it. Is it possible to run an 8" on your axle? Also what reservoir are you running? The bump bump bump sounds like one of two things, starvation or belt slippage.

Dwalk · Jul 16, 2014

Belt slippage, Go to Tractor supply and buy a kevlar lawnmower belt, it will stop squealing

onepieceatatime · Jul 16, 2014

Re:

My belt has always squeeled on my SBC. I think it's because of my belt routing and I haven't found a good way to fix that. I thought I noticed in a few videos of Tim Cameron's new buggy that the belts were squeeling so now I just tell everyone that it's what the cool kids do these days.

TacomaJD · Jul 16, 2014

pholmann said:
I'm not sure about the bigger yota axles but the mini truck axles you can't run an 8" ram. You'll break the knuckles off if your not careful with it. Is it possible to run an 8" on your axle? Also what reservoir are you running? The bump bump bump sounds like one of two things, starvation or belt slippage.

I think it has to do with how far out on the high steer arms my tie rods are mounted. It doesn't turn for ****....like it's ridiculous. And I'm not sure about high steer arm options since I am runnin Hellfire knuckles, other than a custom set. I highly doubt it's starving for fluid, it's the reservoir that comes with the TG kit. The reservoir is 3/4+ full and it's a double ended ram, so it shouldn't be draining the reservoir.

This is the whole kit that's on my rig. Except my reservoir doesn't have the filter option like the one in the pic. It's the same size reservoir, just no filter.

https://www.trail-gear.com/TG/Toyota_Full_Hydraulic_Steering_Kit_10__RAM/i_0_0_2603/_300679-KIT.aspx

Dwalk said:
Belt slippage, Go to Tractor supply and buy a kevlar lawnmower belt, it will stop squealing

Hmm, would it have teeth or be solid?

TBItoy · Jul 16, 2014

Re-drill your high steer arms to move the tie rods closer to the knuckle pivot (if you don't want to buy a longer throw ram, which might dictate getting a bigger displacement orbital valve, so you don't have 5+ turns lock to lock)

Lawnmower belt will not be toothed.

It sounds like your pump is not going into pressure relief bypass. When you go to full lock, does the belt squeal continuously?

If so, pull the pressure fitting out of the pump and make sure it is functioning. It's basically a little spring loaded piston that sets the relief pressure for the pump.

Also, look at your pulley alignment. If the idler pulley is not running straight, the bracket may be bent. I've seen it before.

TBItoy · Jul 16, 2014

pholmann said:
I'm not sure about the bigger yota axles but the mini truck axles you can't run an 8" ram. You'll break the knuckles off if your not careful with it. Is it possible to run an 8" on your axle? Also what reservoir are you running? The bump bump bump sounds like one of two things, starvation or belt slippage.

I've ran 8" rams on the last 2 rigs. They didn't have high steer though. The standard high steer arms (TG, Marlin, etc) for mini truck axles are stupid short, and usually don't even use 6" of throw.

Dwalk · Jul 17, 2014

Hmm, would it have teeth or be solid?
[/quote]

Solid, slightly blue in color

kushKrawlin · Jul 17, 2014

TBItoy said:
Re-drill your high steer arms to move the tie rods closer to the knuckle pivot (if you don't want to buy a longer throw ram, which might dictate getting a bigger displacement orbital valve, so you don't have 5+ turns lock to lock)

Lawnmower belt will not be toothed.

It sounds like your pump is not going into pressure relief bypass. When you go to full lock, does the belt squeal continuously?

If so, pull the pressure fitting out of the pump and make sure it is functioning. It's basically a little spring loaded piston that sets the relief pressure for the pump.

Also, look at your pulley alignment. If the idler pulley is not running straight, the bracket may be bent. I've seen it before.

This^^. I have been through hell with the dam noises, finally got some new belts and shimmed my pulleys, they were outta wack. I also did tha ****** riggin mod i saw on pirate where a piece of hose is attached to where the cap goes to hold more fluid.. Been quiet since then. May be worth a try. Hell im talkim bout a SBC tho not a yota. Psc had sent a different valve for the stock pump when i bought the set up also.

TacomaJD · Jul 17, 2014

Re: Re: Re: Full hydro steering on my Toyota sucks testicles...

TBItoy said:
Re-drill your high steer arms to move the tie rods closer to the knuckle pivot (if you don't want to buy a longer throw ram, which might dictate getting a bigger displacement orbital valve, so you don't have 5+ turns lock to lock)

It sounds like your pump is not going into pressure relief bypass. When you go to full lock, does the belt squeal continuously?

If so, pull the pressure fitting out of the pump and make sure it is functioning. It's basically a little spring loaded piston that sets the relief pressure for the pump.

Pulleys look to be in line and normal, but what do I know. Yes, belt will squeal continuously if I hold the steering wheel at full lock. Looks like I need to drain fluid, take pump off, and inspect it. I wasn't sure if there was something you could inspect to tell if there was a problem with the pump or not.

The steer arms are super thick and have another big hole in them too, I'll have to post pics. I could probably get my buddy or dad to help do some fabbing on them to bring the mount back closer to the knuckle. (I lack tools). Would def be much cheaper than a $250 ram.

kushKrawlin · Jul 17, 2014

Oh also. I think this def helped. On the left is what was in there.. On the right.. U see where im headed im sure. ;D drain that bitch and get some good ****.

kushKrawlin · Jul 17, 2014

easleycrawler · Jul 17, 2014

Your having more problems with your truck, than a broke **** dog has. :****:

But I hate little small issues, their the biggest pain in the ass.

TacomaJD · Jul 17, 2014

Re: Re: Re: Full hydro steering on my Toyota sucks testicles...

easleycrawler said:
Your having more problems with your truck, than a broke **** dog has. :****:

But I hate little small issues, their the biggest pain in the ass.

Most of it, I've been dealing with for a while and they've just got on my last nerve. It never has turned good (sharp), but is even worse now that the wheelbase gained 6" after front end got linked. Steering quality has always seemed sub-par, but has sufficed until this year, it's really started sucking. Just time to replace/upgrade **** I guess.

I've even thought about fixing everything on it and selling it....then taking my sweet time as my pocket book allows and collecting 1 ton axles, 205-203 doubler, turbo 350 trans, and V8 parts and building an Angryfab full tube crawl-bouncer on Red Labels.

Who knows what's gonna come of this. Lol

Toddy · Jul 17, 2014

For the pump I'd try the tractor fluid first and see what happens. Cheap and I had good luck with it.

On the turning new holes in arms will help more then any thing. In hook ram from arm turn it fill lock by hand and see if cylinder will reach on to arm and drill new holes where ever you can get them.

Toddy