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How many folks here run a modified camshaft?

Qman

The Camshaft Guy
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Messages
194
Location
Bonney Lake, Wa
Or better yet...

how many want too? I now work for Delta Cam and talked my boss into giving the off-roaders some love!

Call me and mention this forum and I'll see that you get 10% off any order for any vehicle.

Ken
Delta Cam
1-800-562-5500
 
Sweet deal for a good vendor. :cool:

Go down to delta and get a sweet steel guided timing set for 22r. Your engine will love you.:beer:
 
Sweet deal for a good vendor. :cool:

Go down to delta and get a sweet steel guided timing set for 22r. Your engine will love you.:beer:

Yep, those are tasty!! Got one in my own rig.

Thanks for the props as well.

Most everyone knows who Delta is but only a few know me. Some of the elder members may remember me from the silver Brat I used to wheel. Any way, I have been around for a while and am not going anywhere any time soon. So give us a call and let me hook you up!

Ken
 
I would have but I haven't heard back about vendor status yet. If that is where it should go have a mod move there please.

Also, good to meet you Matt(toyota4x4Matt). Hope you enjoy the parts!!
 
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I run a modified cam...

But, it doesn't start with a "D"...:redneck:


My dad has ran Delta cams before and loved them...:awesomework:
 
KEN thanks for a killer hook up today cant wait to put the new cam and lifters in... I also run a delta cam in my yota.. GO down and see them keep your money here in the pnw and not in a company that is far away....... Ken good meeting you as well.:D:D:D
 
What modifications do you make to the camshaft?

We modify the lobe shape. By doing so we change the characteristics of the powerband. It can change where the torque curve begins and ends. Where the horsepower curve begins and where they intersect. Basically, we give you more power, be it torque or horsepower, than you had before.
 
What modifications do you make to the camshaft?


I know most machine shops and all the ones I have worked in use Delta around here and have very good luck with STOCK re-ground cams. Any cam changed from its original grind can have problems which are discussed as follows.

This is a quote with which I agree wholeheartedly:

"In general, I'm a little leary about reground cams. They can be good if done right, but I hear lots of stories to the contrary. The shops regrinding them would of course never admit to such things, would tell you theirs are always right, and would likely besmerch me for implying otherwise.

To regrind a cam to stock specs is not hard. First any seriously worn cam lobes are welded up to be slightly higher than stock height. Then everything is ground down to slightly lower than stock height to expose all fresh materail. This leaves the base circle slightly smaller diameter than original, which is generally no problem, and can be taken up by adjustment of the rockers. It also leaves the entire cam lobe slightly smaller than original, scaled down by a few percent. A slightly sharper apex on the cam lobe can increase wear rate slightly, but that's not much of an issue by itself.

There are two ways to increase lift significantly.

One, all of the cam lobes need to be welded to be higher. If they are built up only on the tip they get to have a very sharp apex which can shorten lobe life significantly. Building up material on the flanks of the cam lobe would be prohibitively expensive, as all of the lobes would have to be welded up on all surfaces other than the base circle.

The second way to increase lift is to grind down the base circle significantly. This reduces the size of the entire cam lobe, also leaving it with a slightly sharper apex, which may wear faster. It also drops the tappet lower (at rest height), which can USUALLY be compensated for by adjusting rockers, but with wear in the valve train you might run out of adjustment range later.

To change cam timing, for instance trying to make a fast street cam from a stock cam blank, requires considerable welding to build up one flank of the cam lobe to relocate position of the lobe. That too is expensive, and subject to various possible discrepancies that can adversely affect operating life.

Given my druthers, I would rather have my new tappets riding on the ground surface of a virgin forging blank rather than on ground down welds.

The real kicker is that cams are hardened only on the surface, using either flame hardening or cyaniding. Either process only gives hardness a few thousandths of an inch deep in the surface. Flame hardening goes a little deeper, but must be done before the final grind. So the process is weld as necessary, rough grind, flame harden, and finish grind. Setting it up to grind twice is more expensive, so some shops try to shortcut and do all grinding only once after welding. If this is not done right you could end up having the hard surface completely ground away, and the soft cam could fail early in life. Cyaniding is done after grinding, but is much shallower and may not last as long before rapid wear sets in."
 
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I know most machine shops and all the ones I have worked in use Delta around here and have very good luck with STOCK re-ground cams. Any cam changed from its original grind can have problems which are discussed as follows.

This is a quote with which I agree wholeheartedly:

"In general, I'm a little leary about reground cams. They can be good if done right, but I hear lots of stories to the contrary. The shops regrinding them would of course never admit to such things, would tell you theirs are always right, and would likely besmerch me for implying otherwise.

To regrind a cam to stock specs is not hard. First any seriously worn cam lobes are welded up to be slightly higher than stock height. Then everything is ground down to slightly lower than stock height to expose all fresh materail. This leaves the base circle slightly smaller diameter than original, which is generally no problem, and can be taken up by adjustment of the rockers. It also leaves the entire cam lobe slightly smaller than original, scaled down by a few percent. A slightly sharper apex on the cam lobe can increase wear rate slightly, but that's not much of an issue by itself.

There are two ways to increase lift significantly.

One, all of the cam lobes need to be welded to be higher. If they are built up only on the tip they get to have a very sharp apex which can shorten lobe life significantly. Building up material on the flanks of the cam lobe would be prohibitively expensive, as all of the lobes would have to be welded up on all surfaces other than the base circle.

The second way to increase lift is to grind down the base circle significantly. This reduces the size of the entire cam lobe, also leaving it with a slightly sharper apex, which may wear faster. It also drops the tappet lower (at rest height), which can USUALLY be compensated for by adjusting rockers, but with wear in the valve train you might run out of adjustment range later.

To change cam timing, for instance trying to make a fast street cam from a stock cam blank, requires considerable welding to build up one flank of the cam lobe to relocate position of the lobe. That too is expensive, and subject to various possible discrepancies that can adversely affect operating life.

Given my druthers, I would rather have my new tappets riding on the ground surface of a virgin forging blank rather than on ground down welds.

The real kicker is that cams are hardened only on the surface, using either flame hardening or cyaniding. Either process only gives hardness a few thousandths of an inch deep in the surface. Flame hardening goes a little deeper, but must be done before the final grind. So the process is weld as necessary, rough grind, flame harden, and finish grind. Setting it up to grind twice is more expensive, so some shops try to shortcut and do all grinding only once after welding. If this is not done right you could end up having the hard surface completely ground away, and the soft cam could fail early in life. Cyaniding is done after grinding, but is much shallower and may not last as long before rapid wear sets in."

I am more than a little curious who you are quoting. Most of your information is less than accurate. We are not arguing the fact that this information is out there. It is easily attainable in todays high tech environment. We simply try to give people the correct information so that each individual can make their own educated decisions. We are more than happy to sell you a new cam ground to your specifications for twice the price as reground. That decision is up to the end user though.

You discuss hardening. The wives-tail you spoke of is just that, misinformation. Most cams are induction hardened with todays technologies. The "old school" thought process is a hard thing to re-learn. Our quality standards are actually more stringent that the cam manufacturers and sellers. Most people do not know that companies like Comp, Crane, Isky and Crower have most of their cams ground for them and repackaged as their own. We also sell new grinds with the manufacturers "limited" warranty of 6 months. We warranty our reground cams for ANY defects for 1 year. In most cases, we will work with our customers to repair any issue that they have. Being a problem with the cam or the install. You can not call any other manufacturer and talk with the owners and get advice or suggestions.

Our cams do not wear out prematurely. Our hydraulic cams do not wear the lifters. Our solid cams do not wear their lifters any quicker than a factory stick. Most cam failures are the result of improper installation. Bad break in, wrong oils used for break in. Not following break in procedures. Too much spring pressure. Wrong sized springs. The list goes on. The biggest problem is that when a new cam goes flat the customer is reluctant but does assume responsibility for the failure. When a regrind goes bad the customer is very quick to publicly crucify the shop that ground it as poor workmanship. Even though the same circumstances are involved in the failure. It is OK though. We help re-educate the system everyday.

As you can see, from other replies on this thread alone, that several players are running "modified" profiles with great success. I am not sure the reasoning behind the above quoted reply but rest assured we stand behind our product. We use our product on our own vehicles. We race with our customers. We offroad with our customers. Most of our customers become friends as well.
 
This thread is in the Tech section. I am here only to discuss. Nothing put forth was in any way ment to be against you or the company you represent.

I am always willing to learn new things. Maybe all of us can learn a little bit about cams here. :awesomework:

In the quote it was said that he didn't have an outright dislike but a preference for a new cam. We both recognize new manufactured parts, especially OEM factory new parts tend to be manufactured to a higher degree of quality. I will say it again, they TEND to be. The company you work for is used by most machine shops I know of and you offer a very good quality product. Still a purpose built cam for the application I think would be preferable.

I fully recognize all the factors that determine cam life. Quality of oil, brand of oil, the changes in formulation, proper start-up depending on engine type, and certain engines propensity to wear cams.

I don't want to argue every point here but can you explain. When you regrind a stock cam back to stock lift does it not make the apex sharper? And if so that has NO effect on longevity? Can you educate us on how a performace cam is made from a stock cam if what was quoted was wrong?

As for hardening, Yes flame is old terminology for "heat" or "induction" hardening. Where an electomagnet is used to create heat on the surface of the cam. Then it is quenched. I would assume the method used at your facility is a system called Traverse Hardening. The question I have in my mind is how this is applied and when in the grinding process.

It all boils down to cams DO fail. I KNOW most of the time it is user error. However In my experiences I have seen more reground performance cams fail than others. Why I have no idea. So for me I will use very good condition stock used cams or brand new cams. But that is just my opinion. :beer:
 
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