Binder
Well-Known Member
But if that were the problem it wouldn't have fuel and it would run on Ether...May be more than one problem now with as much as it's been messed with....
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- Thread starter trxguy
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But if that were the problem it wouldn't have fuel and it would run on Ether...May be more than one problem now with as much as it's been messed with....
zukkev
Cornfuzzled yet again...
Yeah, I agree....This is all just speculation as it seems there's been a lot of messing around trying to get it going...often times it ends up being the simplest thing that caused the whole problem to begin with!!!! :haha:
k, to start, thanks for all the responses and help most greatly appriciated, and i have been through every page of my Haynes manual with this problem. Anytime it metions TDC, it says to verify that the rotor is pointing at or just before the #1 electrode on the cap, same as every other engine.
this is a1989 with the 2.5l TBI and Renix ignition system
one day a couple weeks ago it started rough like the timing was off, it smoothed out after like 30 secs of rough idle. Then about a week later, i was being a little heavy on the throttle, and i have a loose mainshaft in my trans so it pops out of reverse occasionally, at this time it popped out of gear and reved up to about 4500 rpm, then stummbled and died. i baby this truck almost all the time and it rarly sees 3500-4000 rpms unless i am on the trail. i towed it back to my house and tore into it as i got pissed and smashed a fender and door
, i know not the smartest thing but its just the body.Anyways, i immediatly checked for spark and fuel i had both, i then lined it up to TDC and yes on a compression stroke, atleast im 95% sure. to verify this both valves should be closed and the intake starting to open correct? i then looked at the distributor and it was pointing between the # 4 electrode and the # 2 electrode, as the firing order is 1-3-4-2, so it was way out of time. i then tore the front end apart and the timing marks were more then 180* out from lining up pointing at each other at the inside of the gears, the tensioner was all the way tight and chain was loose, i replaced with complete timing set as well as a oil pan gasket due to the tensioner location, at this time i rotated the crank and left the came alone to keep valves in order, the crank is good as well as connecting rods. when i had the cover off i noticed one of my lifters was not pumped up but it is now with oil in it after be cranked a bit. Is there anyway to do a diagnostic on this RENIX 2.5L, or are the Diag. ports there for looks cause i cant find a reader for it and the parts manager at rairdon dodge monroe said no, and that the ecu wont pop any codes in this era, is this true?
new parts within a year:complete tune up, fuel pumpand filter, timing set, CPS,head gasket, EGR, o2 sensor, ontop of the other stuff that does not mater
this is a1989 with the 2.5l TBI and Renix ignition system
one day a couple weeks ago it started rough like the timing was off, it smoothed out after like 30 secs of rough idle. Then about a week later, i was being a little heavy on the throttle, and i have a loose mainshaft in my trans so it pops out of reverse occasionally, at this time it popped out of gear and reved up to about 4500 rpm, then stummbled and died. i baby this truck almost all the time and it rarly sees 3500-4000 rpms unless i am on the trail. i towed it back to my house and tore into it as i got pissed and smashed a fender and door
, i know not the smartest thing but its just the body.Anyways, i immediatly checked for spark and fuel i had both, i then lined it up to TDC and yes on a compression stroke, atleast im 95% sure. to verify this both valves should be closed and the intake starting to open correct? i then looked at the distributor and it was pointing between the # 4 electrode and the # 2 electrode, as the firing order is 1-3-4-2, so it was way out of time. i then tore the front end apart and the timing marks were more then 180* out from lining up pointing at each other at the inside of the gears, the tensioner was all the way tight and chain was loose, i replaced with complete timing set as well as a oil pan gasket due to the tensioner location, at this time i rotated the crank and left the came alone to keep valves in order, the crank is good as well as connecting rods. when i had the cover off i noticed one of my lifters was not pumped up but it is now with oil in it after be cranked a bit. Is there anyway to do a diagnostic on this RENIX 2.5L, or are the Diag. ports there for looks cause i cant find a reader for it and the parts manager at rairdon dodge monroe said no, and that the ecu wont pop any codes in this era, is this true?new parts within a year:complete tune up, fuel pumpand filter, timing set, CPS,head gasket, EGR, o2 sensor, ontop of the other stuff that does not mater
fuel pump relay was replaced to eliminate that as a problem, and i will do a comp test tomorrow after school, i would assume it is not a fuel problem as the injectors are working in the TB and ether wont even get a sputter so the lack of atomization of fuel would not be it
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zukkev
Cornfuzzled yet again...
Sounds like you need to pull the chain cover again, and rotate the crank one rev then make sure the timing marks on the sprockets line up, and redo the dist setting---making sure the cyl 1 is on TDC by rolling engine over clockwise by hand with the #1 plug out--feeling for your finger to be forced out by the compression, and line up the crank to TDC mark, and make sure the dist is just past the #1 contact in the cap....
i will try that kevin, but it just makes no sense to me when the bbook is normally right and that not how it is said to be, the timing marks were perfect when i put it back together and the ring is not spun on the balancer so that mark is still correct, but i will definatly try it, and i have done the double check out of the book by rotating and putting the cam sprocket to 1 oclock and crank mark to 3 oclock and i had 20 link pins between the marks, i did notice befor i even tore it apart that the distributoe jumps up and down about a 1/4 inch or so when it comes around to the #1 electrode, could the cam or dist gear be to worn and its jumping teeth when cranked?, i dont know if this is possable, well i guess anything is possable, its a JEEP
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zukkev
Cornfuzzled yet again...
Jumping dist shaft is usually not a good thing...might not mean anything, but could be everything...:redneck:
k cool, i didnt think it was good but wasnt sure if it could be it, i will check compression and spark at the end of the plug as i dont know if they are really firing inside the cylinder, and i will rotate to TDC and reset the dist to just past # 1, the tab on rotor should have just barly past #1 correct?, if none of that does it then i will replace the dist as they are only 60 bucks......... GOT PROPANE.........Binder
Well-Known Member
No. You're 180 degrees off.
zukkev
Cornfuzzled yet again...
Yes, the metal tab on the rotoe should be just baaaarely past the contact...
Binder
Well-Known Member
If you are at TDC with the intake valve starting to open it's 180 off no matter how old you are.:;
ok, well so you guys can see where i am coming from please get ahold of a hanyes manual and read up on it cause if you guys are right then why is the manual and **** saying otherwise. it makes no sense and if i am 180 out it would be on the camshaft and it would then poin to number 4 firing position. also if my exaust opens when it fires i would have no movement due to all combustion leaving out the exhaust valve to early, i would assume
Binder
Well-Known Member
At TDC of the compression stroke both valves are closed and will stay closed until the piston gets to the bottom of the cylinder. Yes if it's 180 out then the camshaft is in the wrong orientation not the crank. The distributor is indexed to the cam not to the crank.......I don't know what the book says but it's possible that the book is missing information or is just wrong.:awesomework:
:edit: camshaft in wrong orientation as in it's not on the compression stroke. This doesn't mean the cam is installed wrong. :edit:
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64FJ40
Well-Known Member
Only because I've done it:
When you lined up the timing marks on the cam and crank timing gears and installed the new chain, is that when you installed the distributor (presuming you were at TDC)?
Timing gear marks pointing to one another is not TDC.
When you lined up the timing marks on the cam and crank timing gears and installed the new chain, is that when you installed the distributor (presuming you were at TDC)?
Timing gear marks pointing to one another is not TDC.
everything i have read says otherwise, when i took it apart the crank timing mark was at about10 o clock and the cam mark was at like 1 or 2 oclock, i timed it just as i have any other vehicle, and my buddys tj points at number one i checked today at tdc, i dont know, i am not trying to be an ass, i just dont want to tear into it and redo the cam gear if it is not the problem and cause more parts costs and such
so how should the marks be alinged inside the with the crank at tdc where should the cam mark be?
TreeClimber
Well-Known Member
Try this.
With a wrench, rotate the crank until the timing marks show to be at the 0* mark.
Pull the distributor out.
Rotate the crankshaft 1 complete rotation with the same wrench.
Reinstall the distributor.
Then crank it over and see if it runs.
If it doesn't seem to run, then you can remove the distributor again, and rotate the engine one more time, reinstall the distributor and you are back EXACTLY where you were before.
It only takes a few minutes, can be done easily by one person.
Binder
Well-Known Member
I doubt the timing chain is wrong. On most engines the marks will line up together with the cam gear mark straight down and crank gear straight up. On rare occasion the book will tell you to put the cam gear straight up as well but being that the crank rotates 2:1 over the cam gear either way is correct. The only difference is TDC or the compression stroke or TDC of the exhaust stroke.
I would bet money that the distributor is 180 degrees off. Not trying to be a **** or push buttons just trying to help.
64FJ40
Well-Known Member
Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm not entirely sure I'm remembering it exactly right.
For some reason, I seem to recall (on other motors since I've never done a 2.5) that with the marks on the gears pointed toward one another, that's TDC of the exhaust stroke. To get to TDC of the compression stroke, the crank and cam gears needed to be pointing straight up (one full revolution of the crank - 1/2 rev for the cam).
Again, I'm not sure if I'm remembering that right, but if that's true, it would mean that your distributor is 180 out.
