Need some help with a coilover spring decision...

truckbroke · Mar 12, 2016

Got a dude around the corner from me that's big into dirt tracking. He`s got a scale you pull onto to get corner weights. Gonna get down there maybe today or tomorrow and get the corner weights of my jeep.

stano · Mar 12, 2016

truckbroke said:
Got a dude around the corner from me that's big into dirt tracking. He`s got a scale you pull onto to get corner weights. Gonna get down there maybe today or tomorrow and get the corner weights of my jeep.

Corner weights are helpful, but not 100% accurate. Coilovers get mounted at all kinda of different angles, a shock thats leaning, say 15*, is going to compress less than one mounted straight. When I was getting springs, Chris had me install a spring of known weight and length and set the rig weight down on it and remeasure the spring to see how much it actually compressed. I made a spacer out of PVC pipe because you can do this with only 1 spring on the shock (spacer made up the length to get to the preload nuts), then I set the rig down on it and measured how much the spring compressed. I used a 250# Spring and the front came down 5/8". But the math based on my rig weights actually said there was about 675# on each spring, which should have settled the spring almost 2.5", but the angle of the CO made that different. I hope this makes sense, if I had any pics of it, I'd sure post em for you.

truckbroke · Mar 12, 2016

Its all starting to. I did some reading last night and feel like I`m starting to get my head somewhat wrapped around it. My springs on the front are mounted just about straight up and down and the back are only leaned inboard a tiny bit.

mac5005 · Mar 12, 2016

Re: Re: Need some help with a coilover spring decision...

truckbroke said:
Its all starting to. I did some reading last night and feel like I`m starting to get my head somewhat wrapped around it. My springs on the front are mounted just about straight up and down and the back are only leaned inboard a tiny bit.

Post your current spring rates, current preload, amount of shaft exposed, and travel of shocks.

Also measure the length of each individual spring at ride height.

From this I can tell you the sprung weight at the shock, which is more helpful than the total corner weight, as it considers the effects of mounting angle.

If you can get your measurements to the nearest 1/8 or even 1/16.

truckbroke · Mar 12, 2016

10-4. Do it tomorrow.

How y'all feel about ORI's compared to a coilover.? I had a guy call me today saying he had some 14" s he might would sell..

TacomaJD · Mar 12, 2016

Re:

Ori's are not terrible, some prefer em. If it were me, I'd much rather have coilovers. Personal preference really. Every time I try to debate the topic, some fag like McMinn calls me an interwebs engineer, so I'll just say I would prefer coilovers and leave it at that. Lol

kushKrawlin · Mar 13, 2016

truckbroke said:
10-4. Do it tomorrow.

How y'all feel about ORI's compared to a coilover.? I had a guy call me today saying he had some 14" s he might would sell..

ORIs Fukin work! And the packaging... Pfff. Could be riding months ahead of co's... Maybe years... Tuning and tuning and tuning coilovers seems to be a costly head ache too.. Now, I wouldn't get ORIs if i was racing.. What kind of idiot would do that .. :stir:

But for what most of us do they WIN!!
Just look at tha big Fukin insane parts list that comes along with co's. Bumps,sways,winches,etcetcetc .. Add that **** up, then add the headache and 20 diff spring rates, AFTER the pita of shoving all that **** on your axle, knowing something ain't gonna fit.. So u move it and somethin else doesn't fit etcetc hahaha. And post the total here..ill be floatin on the titty wagon. Ask around. I know several that have ORIs.. And everyone loves them... Coilovers can be badass, but in the end I don't have that much money or patience ... I just wanna ride .... Co's for them rich Folks.. If it was me I'd go ahead and call your buddy back. :****:

TacomaJD · Mar 13, 2016

Re:

I think that description of c/o's is a little over the top...lol. You crazy as a bat if you think you got the money for ORI's but can't afford c/o's. Don't forget about having to buy that nitrogen fill setup too. Lol

Not knocking them, because they have proven to do well on a crawler, but yer view on coilovers is a bit flawed, my ninja.

lowbudgetjunk · Mar 13, 2016

Re:

TacomaJD said:
I think that description of c/o's is a little over the top...lol. You crazy as a bat if you think you got the money for ORI's but can't afford c/o's. Don't forget about having to buy that nitrogen fill setup too. Lol

Not knocking them, because they have proven to do well on a crawler, but yer view on coilovers is a bit flawed, my ninja.

To change shims on CO's, you have to have Nitrogen too, so that point is moot. Having ridden in similar rigs, kmcminns and Kush's. They both ride well and perform well. The only difference I see is that Kevin's is pretty dialed in now and doesn't have to change (can't really without a teardown) for different speed or terrain. If Casey wanted to cruise through a high speed section.......nope, he would never have to set up for that. :smoke: Casey does have the ability to dial his suspension per park or per hill if he sees fit to. For a recreational wheeler that doesn't want to have to get into their shocks and adjust shims, springs, etc., ORI's are perfect. Plus not having to mess with all the extras up front would be nice too. No bumps on my Red Buggy would make life easier.

mac5005 · Mar 13, 2016

To be fair, sway bars aren't a necessity with coilovers.

Picking the correct springs, using preload, and tuning the crossover ring height can do alot to minimize body roll.

This is especially true when using a 50 lbs stiffer main spring.

Also, tuning the bleed, and low speed valving can help with body roll without having to use a sway bar. Some brand shocks are easy to tune bleed, some take more work to tune the bleed.

The down fall is small choppy washboard at slow speed will be rough, and once tuning to get smoothness through this will give up some resistance to body roll.

This is when sway bars help with coilovers. You can fully tune the valving for a plush ride then tune the bar to correct body roll. The other advantage to a sway bar is to balance the front and rear suspension performance to the chassis, but again not a necessity.

The same for bump stops. It's not a necessity to run air bumps with coilovers. If budget is a concern, mount air bump cans and install a piece of tube with a poly bump stop. You can tune the height of the bump, and then easily upgrade later if desired.

Again the correct springs and quality valve tuning help to control bottoming, while not relying completely on an air bump.

Currently my air bumps have 50 psi in them, so that the spring rate rises quickly only at the very end of compression.

It's possible to get the springs very close on the first or second try.

First, borrow some springs of a known weight and install and find the weight at the shock.

Using some quick math can get you very close to the correct the springs on the first real attempt. Several companies will allow you to swap springs as long as no marks on them.

If the math is hard, use them hehe calculator I posted earlier, it makes it simple. Just a few quick measurements, input into excel, and it outputs your new spring rate.

I'm not arguing ori vs coilover, just pointing out some facts about coilovers.

Yes, packaging is easier with ori, but upfront cost is greater.

kmcminn · Mar 13, 2016

I think everyone will agree that both struts and coilovers have pros and cons. A lot is personal preference. I'm not sure what a set of ORI's cost but in the end both are expensive, so get what you want. Read threads, watch videos make a somewhat educated decision. I think you would probably be happy with either.

smbroady82 · Mar 13, 2016

kmcminn said:
I think everyone will agree that both struts and coilovers have pros and cons. A lot is personal preference. I'm not sure what a set of ORI's cost but in the end both are expensive, so get what you want. Read threads, watch videos make a somewhat educated decision. I think you would probably be happy with either.

One of the smartest things I've read on here in a while..

TacomaJD · Mar 13, 2016

Re: Re: Need some help with a coilover spring decision...

kmcminn said:
I think everyone will agree that both struts and coilovers have pros and cons. A lot is personal preference. I'm not sure what a set of ORI's cost but in the end both are expensive, so get what you want. Read threads, watch videos make a somewhat educated decision. I think you would probably be happy with either.

Truf.

truckbroke · Mar 13, 2016

kmcminn said:
I think everyone will agree that both struts and coilovers have pros and cons. A lot is personal preference. I'm not sure what a set of ORI's cost but in the end both are expensive, so get what you want. Read threads, watch videos make a somewhat educated decision. I think you would probably be happy with either.

Well said