NOVA Grants

Horus · Jul 20, 2012

As many of us know it is grant approval time in Washington state. Time to tell them what we need and what we do not. I've sent emails out to DNR and more recently the FS regarding the use of my money on public lands. My issue is it seems my emails are only going to DNR and FS reps. They then pass them on to whomever. I don't like that.

How can I contact the NOVA board directly? There are a handfull of names and email addresses I have at home of friends who feel the way I do but lack the ability to construct a proper letter expressing their opinion, so I do it for them. The problem is I don't want my emails tossed out by the libs who stand to lose their handout should my opinions reach the ears that matter.

I've been all over the DFW and NOVA sites but I cannot find a link to forward my letters directly to the committee. Can anyone help?

Thanks in advance.
:beer:

YotaDude1997 · Jul 20, 2012

I don't have the info you seek but I do commend you on your efforts.:awesomework: Other ORV users should take notice of you and imitate.

Eric · Jul 20, 2012

Way to go Mike! :awesomework: Be that big thorn in their side!

Please let us know if you figure out how to get them to listen!

nowires · Jul 20, 2012

Linky

http://www.rco.wa.gov/grants/nova.shtml

Horus · Jul 20, 2012

nowires said:
Linky

http://www.rco.wa.gov/grants/nova.shtml

I've been all over that site. This page only seems to define what the grants are and how to apply for one. The "Advisory Committee" link is dead. Unless I am missing something there are no contacts or links on that site to which I can direct my concerns.

CHOP SHOP · Jul 20, 2012

One would almost think "they" planned it that way.

Horus · Jul 20, 2012

CHOP SHOP said:
One would almost think "they" planned it that way.

One most certainly would.

pokey · Jul 20, 2012

I sit on the NOVA advisory board representing 4x4 motorized use. sending letters to members is a dead end street. You need to send them to the agency reps that are applying for the grants. I do however listen to what our users have to say prior to the approval process starting. But heres the list. http://www.rco.wa.gov/grants/advisory_committees/nova.shtml

Horus · Jul 20, 2012

pokey said:
I sit on the NOVA advisory board representing 4x4 motorized use. sending letters to members is a dead end street. You need to send them to the agency reps that are applying for the grants. I do however listen to what our users have to say prior to the approval process starting. But heres the list. http://www.rco.wa.gov/grants/advisory_committees/nova.shtml

Cool. I just want to reach higher up into the food chain. Besides, it is my experience that traveling dead end roads nonetheless often leads to finding cool trails.

I have received the answer to my question via text message. Thank you.

nowires · Jul 20, 2012

Horus said:
I've been all over that site. This page only seems to define what the grants are and how to apply for one. The "Advisory Committee" link is dead. Unless I am missing something there are no contacts or links on that site to which I can direct my concerns.

Contact RCO straight

pokey said:
You need to send them to the agency reps that are applying for the grants.

X2 on this

Horus · Jul 30, 2012

Remember when we were kids in school? Our teachers used to tell us over and over why Russia sucked and America ruled. "In Russia" they'd say, " you have to go through road blocks to get from point A to B! You would be followed around by police officers as if they had already decided you are guilty and are merely waiting for you to commit a crime. You have to show correct paperwork to gt anywhere. A socialist police officer couldn't wait to find some reason to give you a financially crippling ticket. These are some of the reasons Russia sucks and America rules. Here in America we don't have these things because we are free."

I remember those teacher's rants like they were yesterday. If only more people took them as seriously as I did in school.

Today you cannot spend a weekend out in the Cle Elm district without tasting the essence of why Russia sucked (and failed.) In order for one to get from the OHV campground to the OHV trail one must drive through a road block set up by Rangers, just like in Russia. Your group is then shadowed all day by a Re-education and Enforcement officer in a Wrangler. After all, in America we are guilty until proven hiker. A year or so ago I was camping in Long Meadow and a Re-e & E officer came over to our site to brag up the fact that he issued a $4500 ticket to some single track guys who's fire was not yet 100% out.

I sat there in my chair pondering what kind of sick lowlife would get off on such a thing. To actually be happy about doing something like that to a fellow American. Here is a guy who just wanted a break from actually benefitting society for a little time in the woods. Now, thanks to a useless social worker he will have to choose between food and clothes for his kids or not having a bench warrant issued against him.

This year they are asking for $245,000 to do nothing but continue converting America into that land our teachers warned us about. This is only $60,000 shy of what the entire Eatonville Police force costs in it's entirety! Eatonville is a major population center. Naches is the middle of ****ing nowhere. 99.9982% of Washington residents don't even know it's there. Those who do are the most well armed, righteous doing and generally higher tax paying individuals. $245K just to have people out there capitalizing on the presence of real hard working Americans in the woods.

I can't sit back and let them destroy everything every American soldier has fought to protect. Seasonal closures and the conversion of trails into roads through "tread work" are all new elements brought to us by these people. People who NEED no find problems with our areas in order to keep their "jobs".

Above all there is one undeniable fact on the ground. Every time a trail is closed seasonally, every time a trail is flattened and coated with rock and every time an American has to feel his gut drop as he approaches a Stalinist road block on the 1901 road with larger tires and smaller bumpers, those who would see America replaced by Russia win.

We can stop this advance of terror tactics on our recreational land but we must do so through elected officials. They must be made aware that voters are not going to put up with the Forest Service's Sharia Law bullshit anymore.

We cannot fix this through local means. We must get up to the elected officials as they have something to lose by not listening. The strength of our voice is the only thing we have left anymore.

pokey · Jul 30, 2012

Someone needs a bigggg roll of tinfoil to make a hat.

Horus · Jul 30, 2012

pokey said:
Someone needs a bigggg roll of tinfoil to make a hat.

Where am I wrong?

pokey · Jul 30, 2012

Horus said:
Where am I wrong?

well this is somewhat spot on but the rest of it is so far offbase its just a rant.

"We must get up to the elected officials as they have something to lose by not listening. The strength of our voice is the only thing we have left anymore."

So I have to ask since I dont belive I see you at any of the FS meetings held monthly or bimonthly just what are you doing to alert the FS of your concerns :eeek:

Horus · Jul 30, 2012

I have been politically active for ORV use for only two years, give or take.

Over the last 30 years how effective has going to FS meetings and expressing our concerns to them been? It seems to me the ORV community has been doing the same thing working with the FS and "expressing concerns" to the lower ranks for decades now. To be fair this applies to the DNR as well.

Where has this gotten us? I see photos of what Evans Creek and the Naches Wagon trail used to look like, all year round and today they are shadows of what they were, when they're open.

How much trail mileage have we lost in the last ten, twenty even thirty years? Is it that our concerns are not being voiced at these meetings? Is the Forest Service not listening to our concerns?

I am behind the wheel of my buggy three times a month on average and year round. Camping and smashing all weekend long at least once a month. As a regular user I get to know most of the other regular users 85% of which do not use the internet forums. I generally agree with their point of view and enjoy communicating it here for the other 15% to read.

Bottom line. They could act in a way that benefits everyone involved. They do not. They are ever more controlling and taking more and more away and yet we let them do it, even defending their bullshit and helping them with physical labor along the way. Why?

pokey · Jul 30, 2012

Horus said:
I have been politically active for ORV use for only two years, give or take.

Over the last 30 years how effective has going to FS meetings and expressing our concerns to them been? It seems to me the ORV community has been doing the same thing working with the FS and "expressing concerns" to the lower ranks for decades now. To be fair this applies to the DNR as well.

Where has this gotten us? I see photos of what Evans Creek and the Naches Wagon trail used to look like, all year round and today they are shadows of what they were, when they're open.

How much trail mileage have we lost in the last ten, twenty even thirty years? Is it that our concerns are not being voiced at these meetings? Is the Forest Service not listening to our concerns?

I am behind the wheel of my buggy three times a month on average and year round. Camping and smashing all weekend long at least once a month. As a regular user I get to know most of the other regular users 85% of which do not use the internet forums. I generally agree with their point of view and enjoy communicating it here for the other 15% to read.

Bottom line. They could act in a way that benefits everyone involved. They do not. They are ever more controlling and taking more and more away and yet we let them do it, even defending their bullshit and helping them with physical labor along the way. Why?

So How many miles have we lost Horus ? By this I mean of legal trails ? not bootleg trails or areas like reiter that were user built without the agencys. Truth is very little of our LEGAL trails have been lost at all. This is from working with the agencys to protect them. Laws have changed over the years and the enviromental laws have put enormous restrictions on the land managing agencys. We that do the work have worked with these agencys to keep our trails open and we still have more legal trails than almost any other state in this country. Does that mean we have to compromise at times ? Yes it does but the trails are still there for all to enjoy. I will take compromise and open trails over closed trails any day.

Horus · Jul 31, 2012

Good point regarding legal vs bootleg trails lost. When compared to the standard of modern 4X4s set by the national average the only things we've had at our disposal here are bootleg. DNR and FS standards are decades behind the rest of the nation in terms of technicality. Really the legal area are only good if you want to wheel all day and never spill your beer. For those of us using rigs built to modern standards and wanting to use them as nature intended there are only what Evans, Elbe, Tahuya, Walker and even Naches all used to be... bootleg. A point I refuse to argue as I've seen enough photos from before these areas were adopted as official ORV areas.

pokey said:
Does that mean we have to compromise at times ? Yes it does but the trails are still there for all to enjoy. I will take compromise and open trails over closed trails any day.

Here is where we differ. I feel that a trail can be closed without actually officially closing it. This can be done by graveling it over and smoothing it out. Once a transfer case is considered "overbuilding your rig" then that trail becomes irrelevant anyway.

I went back to Evans Creek for the first time in well over two years, three weekends ago. I was appalled at what they have done to that place. I ran the lower 311 once all weekend. On that run I found the end of my overdrive several times through. This indicates my rig was hitting 55 mph in spots. The rest of the weekend I'd leave the campground and just go experiment at Brake Line Hill for a bit and come back. I have no use for the rest of the 311 road leading to BLH, except maybe the cool line to the left of the two big rocks at the beginning.

At least with the DNR they are pretending to compromise. The Forest Service is out to kill everything. I have decided I will not cooperate with them to do this. We need to get the environmental laws they are held to exempted from us or exempt them from our woods.

Sad as it sounds I'll take a closed trail over an open road. We already have plenty of roads. What is happening on FS trails is NOT compromise, it is complete and utter defeat.

Horus · Jul 31, 2012

To elaborate, if we know what the future will look like should we continue to follow the same course, why isn't the course being changed? We know what we are doing will lead to a handful of ORV roadways in as little five more years. Why aren't we moving our attention toward the actual legislation responsible for the destruction of modern 4X4 trails? Get rid of the people causing the problem and the problem goes away. Should be an easy sale to a state government in the financial shape ours is in. $245K to guard trees and the 40 to 80 users the area might see on the average weekend?

By the way, by "modern trails" I am referring to natural trails played as they lay. Reiter was the perfect example of pure organic natural trails. Nobody created anything aside from a few bridges the single track guys made. We drove over what nature itself provided and loved every bit of it. Crushed rock and strips of old excavator track strewn everywhere is not natural, let alone a trail. They are replacing our trails with industrial pollution and calling it environmentalism. They must be stopped at a higher level than can be achieved at any twig meeting.

WA-Wheeler · Jul 31, 2012

I agree to a point with you......but I feel like the world in which I grew up wheeling is dead and gone. I have accepted that. This doesn't mean Im not angry or would do anything to try and get those glory days back BUT it will never be the same.

To be honest if this world could survive a meteor attack the size of D-day I'm sure it will survive us ripping though it with some purpose built rigs.....BUT again! This is not the world we live in.

A simple two land road that stretched for 10 miles is more damaging to the environment then (not fact, more personal assumption) our winding trails ACROSS the land....BUT the time of this freedom is gone....Sad as it is.

My point is times are changing, for better or worse I'm. It not going to argue that. It's a dissapointment but a fact. Let's cherish what we do have and wheel the fawkout out of it!!! :awesomework:

Horus · Jul 31, 2012

There was a time when racial segregation was just the way it is. There was also a time in this land when American colonists would put a significant amount of their wealth onto boats bound for England in the form of taxes. When they first arrived in the new world it was so simple. A generation later the new taxes being levied against the Americans by the king of England were crippling.

During those time a few people stood up and suggested this new world should become it's own new nation, an American nation.

These few people had one major obstacle and that was all the people around them. Most people back then would say things like "We can't stop paying the King's tax or they'll close everything anyway" or " we have to help the King pave our trails into irrelevance, or else". After all, we can't fight the red coats and win. That'll never happen.

The whole reason we are here now and the "glory days" are gone is because we allowed them to take our freedom away. Rather than stand up for what is American we shovel the Kings gravel into the King's trail hoping we might have access to the King's forest for a few more years. It is not the King's forest.

This is America, Land of the Free. To use an environmental law to subvert unalienable human rights is a crime as high as murder. We are losing our trails to gravel and closure because we have turned into a nation of pushovers. Government says jump, we ask how high.

My point in this thread is that I want to turn this fight around, not help the greenies end it for us. We, ORV users say bullshit like its hopeless and we just have to play by the king's rules. On Greenie forums they are saying "Yes, we're winning, we're winning! Fighting for what we want like real Americans IS WORKING! "