Pros/cons of ORV tabs?

[POR]

IN 2009 the upper level of the DNR, including the Commissioner of Public Lands did not oppose the Legislature stealing our ORV funds even though it cost the DNR over 3 million dollars and the equivalent of 35 full time employees.

They have demonstrated that they are willing to lose out on the revenue if it provides an anti-ORV outcome.


A normal business model cannot be applied to that state

Maybe they need to then see how it is with no revenue, maybe they would have to try and apply a business model.
so why is dnr not fighting for their revenue/income my problem. Seems like the employees would have something to say about that..

 

[Tod]

Maybe they need to then see how it is with no revenue, maybe they would have to try and apply a business model.
so why is dnr not fighting for their revenue/income my problem. Seems like the employees would have something to say about that..

The mindset is the DNR is legally first and foremost a entity that exists to make money for state trust funds.

Losing every penny of recreational funding just means no recreational access.
The cheapest land manager is a gate and many old school DNR guys would be totally OK without public access.

As one told me, public land is easier to manage without the public.

That is what we are working with.

 

[TreeClimber]

edit; the below quotes and conversations are MY opinion only, and only mine.

The mindset is the DNR is legally first and foremost a entity that exists to make money for state trust funds.

Losing every penny of recreational funding just means no recreational access.
The cheapest land manager is a gate and many old school DNR guys would be totally OK without public access.

As one told me, public land is easier to manage without the public.

That is what we are working with.

Unfortunately, this is true.

Not sure why the personal attacks either.

If you are trying to get more support for WA parks with that attitude, you may try another approach.

The quotes you're upset about are not unique to Tod.
That frustration is often vocalized by anyone (and sometimes everyone) whom fights the fight on our behalf. Don't take it personal. (Jim had that same tone, often) It's just a reflection of the frustration felt, by going to the State and Feds and seeing their collective 'don't give a damn' towards ORV and Off Road recreation.

Aww.. but the quality of wheeling I get for the price does provide me "more" for my dollar.. I'm only negative because I don't agree with you or because I'm speaking how I see all this?

I've wheeled far more of the United States than most here, and agree that there is a lot of other quality locations. But I still think Rimrock is world class. But, I get your point. Also, my phrase about negativity was directed to Tod.

It's not bragging.. we are building and maintaining access roads for free for timber company's/government. ...

Timber companies, and to a good extent also the Gov, would prefer us to NOT build or maintain access roads. I've seen Big Timber use a dozer and excavator to build a road. What would take us years to accomplish takes them a few hours.

And Tod, whom are you? I'm sure we've met. I'm pretty sure we've talked. I've been to lots of Region 2 meetings.

Tony Fox. Eldorado Dust Devils. PNW4WDA, WOHVA member.

 

[crazybluerider1]

So.. where's this special $10 place then?? Since I don't live down there?

Fullbore plastics did 10$ but stopped selling them a while back. yamaha sports plaza sold me one for my wheeler for 10.50 about a month ago and Devious powersports sold me one for my RZR for 10.50 just before thanksgiving.

I'm not aware of any sellers in the Portland area that sell for the 10$ flat price currently, I was just stating that the state only gets 10$ of the 10.50$

Who charged you 12$? It is illegal for businesses to mark the permits up more than .50$ unless the price went up in the last 2 months and I didn't hear about it.

I'm not trying to call you a liar, I'm trying to keep you from getting screwed.



Edit: straight from the states website
https://www.oregon.gov/OPRD/ATV/pages/permits.aspx

ATV Permit Information

You must display an ATV permit if you are operating your ATV on public land (and even then, the land must be specifically designated for ATV use).

The ATV Permit Fee is $10.00 (Most permit agents charge an extra .50), and it is valid for two years.

 

[crazybluerider1]

He said he was buying OR ORV tabs.

OR doesn't register ATV's. It is entirely possible he registers and pays taxes in WA but only buys tabs in OR since that's where he uses them.

I know a couple of people who do this with their dune vehicles.

 

[POR]

Fullbore plastics did 10$ but stopped selling them a while back. yamaha sports plaza sold me one for my wheeler for 10.50 about a month ago and Devious powersports sold me one for my RZR for 10.50 just before thanksgiving.

I'm not aware of any sellers in the Portland area that sell for the 10$ flat price currently, I was just stating that the state only gets 10$ of the 10.50$

Who charged you 12$? It is illegal for businesses to mark the permits up more than .50$ unless the price went up in the last 2 months and I didn't hear about it.

I'm not trying to call you a liar, I'm trying to keep you from getting screwed.



Edit: straight from the states website
https://www.oregon.gov/OPRD/ATV/pages/permits.aspx

I've gotten mine at powersports in Hillsboro, some other dirt bike shop in Gresham, that little gas station in burns (I think it's burns)
Some jeep shop in bend, over the years. I wanna say the last time I got one in burns yrs ago it was 15. Even then still not much to bitch about at those prices. I have a couple that expire this year so if I see that $12 price again I'm gonna ask why their over the alotted 50 cents

 

[POR]

The mindset is the DNR is legally first and foremost a entity that exists to make money for state trust funds.

Losing every penny of recreational funding just means no recreational access.
The cheapest land manager is a gate and many old school DNR guys would be totally OK without public access.

As one told me, public land is easier to manage without the public.

That is what we are working with.

OK so with no funding also comes no funding to police area's.. correct? I would imagine with no revenue and lost funding agencies would lose workers. Which would lead to limited policing. Which then on the other hand leads to gates... which stop Noone.

 

[Tod]

My apologies about the attitude.

A little backstory on the issue might help.

Earlier this legislative session the idea was seriously floated to cancel ORV reciprocity agreements between WA and OR unless OR provides the VIN numbers relating to their ORV permit sales to WA so they could cross reference that with the WA database of vehicle titles so WA can prosecute violations under RCW46.16A.030(6).

I help shut that down, but since folks publicly flaunt that law it was not an task easy.

Now there are two bills that would make it easier for the State to convict residents for buying out of state ORV registration/permits by WA residents. These would make it a gross misdemeanor to fail to register an ORV or snowmobile within 15 days regardless of where you intend to use it.

The people supporting this legislation point to forums like this as proof they we are criminals that intentionally evade the current law. It becomes difficult to say that is not true, so thanks to that I have almost no leverage to stop that legislation.

 

[Tod]

OK so with no funding also comes no funding to police area's.. correct? I would imagine with no revenue and lost funding agencies would lose workers. Which would lead to limited policing. Which then on the other hand leads to gates... which stop Noone.

Has that business model every worked?

 

[TreeClimber]

Now there are two bills that would make it easier for the State to convict residents for buying out of state ORV registration/permits by WA residents. These would make it a gross misdemeanor to fail to register an ORV or snowmobile within 15 days regardless of where you intend to use it.
.

Can you please elaborate?

 

[Tod]

And Tod, whom are you?

Thanks for the supportive words.

I've been the WOHVA Political Action Committee Chairman since about 2007.
Northwest Motorcycle VP or Pres or Legislative Coordinator since 1997.
Lobbying on behalf of all forms of ORV for about 20 years.
A bit of offroad vehicle racing mixed in too.

Prior than that I was involved with land (water) access issues for hydroplane racing organizations along with being a technical and safety inspector, driver and pit crew guy.

In between that, when time allows I would much prefer riding or wheeling in the woods.

 

[TreeClimber]

Thanks for the supportive words.

I've been the WOHVA Political Action Committee Chairman since about 2007.
Northwest Motorcycle VP or Pres or Legislative Coordinator since 1997.
Lobbying on behalf of all forms of ORV for about 20 years.
A bit of offroad vehicle racing mixed in too.

Prior than that I was involved with land (water) access issues for hydroplane racing organizations along with being a technical and safety inspector, driver and pit crew guy.

In between that, when time allows I would much prefer riding or wheeling in the woods.

Hmmm....

Are you Tim? Or Tom? I'm thinking Tim.

 

[ain'tstuckjustresting]

His name is actually Tod.

 

[Tod]

Hmmm....

Are you Tim? Or Tom? I'm thinking Tim.

Tod Petersen
Political Action Committee Chairman â€" Washington Off Highway Vehicle Alliance
Legislative/Land Use Coordinator â€" Northwest Motorcycle Association
Email: [email protected]

 

[TreeClimber]

Tod Petersen
Political Action Committee Chairman â€" Washington Off Highway Vehicle Alliance
Legislative/Land Use Coordinator â€" Northwest Motorcycle Association
Email: [email protected]

Well hello Tod.

Thanks for keeping NW-Wheelers updated for the last 6 or 7 years. Much appreciated. And thanks for the action from WOHVA too.

By the way, WOHVA doesn't list your name on the website. But both Tim and Tom's last name starts with a D., so I was hypothesizing that TOD was initials.

Keep up the good fight.

 

[Tod]

Can you please elaborate?

Not tonight, gotta catch some zzzz before the alarm lights up at 4am.

Here are links to the bills.

http://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?BillNumber=5338&Year=2017

http://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?BillNumber=1446&Chamber=House&Year=2017

 

[KarlVP]

If you wheel of road in WA and don't buy ORV tabs, who do you think should be paying for access and facilities where you recreate in WA?

My vehicle registration and discover pass?:fawkdancesmiley:

 

[Tod]

My vehicle registration and discover pass?:fawkdancesmiley:

Sarcasm Mode = ON

If spending about the same amount as for an ORV permit and getting somewhere between zero and $2.40 in return gives you wood, tug away. :masturbanana[1]:

Sarcasm Mode = OFF

 

[Avanteone]

If spending about the same amount as for an ORV permit and getting somewhere between zero and $2.40 in return gives you wood, tug away. :masturbanana[1]:

I'd gladly pay $10/12 or more per year for a separate WA ORV tag if that money went to ORV recreation. I don't believe that's the case.

 

[Tod]

I'd gladly pay $10/12 or more per year for a separate WA ORV tag if that money went to ORV recreation. I don't believe that's the case.

Other than the rather suspect service and admin fees, all of your WA ORV permit must by law go toward ORV recreation.