Rear Steer Prices?

sleepsontoilet · Apr 29, 2017

I called PSC and was quoted $3200 for the kit Jesse Haines uses with their new CBR pump with external pressure relief valve. They said they could get the price down to around $2800 if I used their regular CBR pump. There wasn't really any price difference between the 2.75x8.75 ram and the 3x9 ram. I was around $1000 in my last Zuk, so I was caught off guard.

I know a lot of you on this board run rear steer, so I wanted to get opinions on what works best for the money. There aren't a lot of people in my area running anything other than PSC normally, but I've heard several on the east coast run KRC pumps. I'm running an SC3800, so I need a TC or CB pump as a P pump doesn't just bolt up. For those who run electric over hydraulic rear steering, what's the best for your money? Has anyone ran full hydro front and rear, as well as electric over hydraulic? Did one work better than the other?

I need a 12.3cu orbital, so I think I'm stuck with the big money Eaton orbital. I don't see where Trail Gear or Midwest steering offer anything over a 9cu.

I appreciate all the help and advice in advance. I searched last night, but most of what it pulled up were old for sale adds.

TBItoy · Apr 29, 2017

https://midweststeering.com/product/1208-cuinch-steering-valve-non-load-reaction/

Midwest has big displacement valves

Unless you want load reaction? (I wouldn't, but that's personal preference I guess)

Humpy · Apr 29, 2017

Why do you want suck a big ram?

Also what axles and what tire size and what weight of rig

sleepsontoilet · Apr 29, 2017

Humpy said:
Why do you want suck a big ram?

Also what axles and what tire size and what weight of rig

Portal 9s

Jesse runs a 3x9 on all of his portal builds.

Bebop · Apr 29, 2017

Buy the 2 rams and make your own system.
I would try to adapt a real hydraulic gear driven pump but that takes more work to figure out which one.

Otherwise I heard that high flow TC pumps from a 4.7 WJ with hydraulic fan should do the trick.

Big cooler and reservoir are key elements too.

sleepsontoilet · Apr 30, 2017

Bebop said:
Buy the 2 rams and make your own system.
I would try to adapt a real hydraulic gear driven pump but that takes more work to figure out which one.

Otherwise I heard that high flow TC pumps from a 4.7 WJ with hydraulic fan should do the trick.

Big cooler and reservoir are key elements too.

Game plan is to buy a 12cu orbital, and the PSC 3x9 rams for starters. Just not sure if I should buy a rear steer valve, or go electric over hydraulic. Especially since I can't run a bolt on P pump. I don't want to be constantly burning up pumps, or have it bound and refusing to steer as that's happened before.

TBItoy · Apr 30, 2017

Not sure what your fixation with the P pump is?

I think the TC, CB, and CBR pumps are all better pumps that a P.

Running a huge orbital and rams, you're either going to need one high zoot high flow pump, or 2 "normal" pumps.

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sleepsontoilet · Apr 30, 2017

TBItoy said:
Not sure what your fixation with the P pump is?

I think the TC, CB, and CBR pumps are all better pumps that a P.

Running a huge orbital and rams, you're either going to need one high zoot high flow pump, or 2 "normal" pumps.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Most I know with rear steer run a P pump, and most pump builders I've spoken to suggest one. I'm not fixated on one at all, I liked the CBR on my last build. I paid $75 for it used, but not sure if it would run f&r or not. Obviously Jesse's setup works, but I have a hard time spending almost $800 for a steering pump for a crawler. I could possibly run a second pump where the ac delete pulley currently is, if I had to.

TBItoy · Apr 30, 2017

sleepsontoilet said:
Most I know with rear steer run a P pump, and most pump builders I've spoken to suggest one. I'm not fixated on one at all, I liked the CBR on my last build. I paid $75 for it used, but not sure if it would run f&r or not. Obviously Jesse's setup works, but I have a hard time spending almost $800 for a steering pump for a crawler. I could possibly run a second pump where the ac delete pulley currently is, if I had to.

I think mostly that is because the P pump is the oldest, most common, can be had in large displacement.

I'd venture to say it is also the cheapest to rebuild (bushings, no bearing)

On a play crawler (not a comp rig with big $ laying on the line) I'd be inclined to run 2 "normal" pumps in parallel (with check valves) to get your flow up. With a 3" ram, needing super high pressure won't be much of an issue.

The electric over hydraulic has been hashed out here a couple times. It takes MEGA amps to put out decent pressure and flow numbers. Most electric over hydraulic setups available are higher pressure/lower flow than a steering pump, so you would need to use a smaller bore ram to get your steering speed up. Plus you'd need a big money Mechman Alternator to keep your charging system from shitting the bed when you are working the rear steer (think of it as running a winch)

sleepsontoilet · Apr 30, 2017

This is where I think I could put a second pump instead of the ac delete pulley I currently have in place. RokYota on pirate posted this in the 3800 thread a few years ago. Even though it's more work, it's cheaper than the pump Jesse runs in his portal car. I would think I'd be better running the front off one, and rear off the other than both tied in together. You disagree TBI?

TBItoy · Apr 30, 2017

Looks like it would work.

I'd run both tied together.

Otherwise you'll end up with 2 slow systems.

If you arent' worried about the rear being super fast, I'd consider running a priority flow divider that limits the amount of flow available to the rear system, that way your front is always fast.

NTIDWELL · May 1, 2017

I would not waste your money on two p style pumps I did not like mine I did like my two TC pumps i ran a stazsworks setup and loved it I would recommend running them one pump front one pump rear With them ran together it's slows way down when using both at the same time I would also look at running a 2.5x10 instead of the 3x9 all my rams and components was psc. Electric is nice in a way of you have steering with out motor running so getting back to the trailer is a little easier when you have a rod hanging out the side of your block Price wise thinking $1000 for electric. And right at $2000 for hydro. Normally on any steering systems we tell people they can figure $2000 front or rear By the time you buy orbital pump ram hoses all that small **** adds up fast

yankster · May 1, 2017

Definitely run two pumps. Like Nate said if you're trail riding you'll tire of one slowing the other down when used together, which you will a lot. The electric pumps work well but take a lot of electrical power to run. The few guys I know that used them went through alternators on a regular basis. Plus if it's cold the fluid stays cold since it's not recirculating like an engine driven unit. I know a full system is a chunk of cash but there's something to be said for a matched system that works out of the box with no engineering.

Bebop · May 1, 2017

I agree with the above. If you can run 2 PC pumps, I would.

Like I said, 2 High flow TC from a 4.7 WJ should do the trick.

BUG-E J · May 1, 2017

NTIDWELL said:
I would not waste your money on two p style pumps I did not like mine I did like my two TC pumps i ran a stazsworks setup and loved it I would recommend running them one pump front one pump rear With them ran together it's slows way down when using both at the same time I would also look at running a 2.5x10 instead of the 3x9 all my rams and components was psc. Electric is nice in a way of you have steering with out motor running so getting back to the trailer is a little easier when you have a rod hanging out the side of your block Price wise thinking $1000 for electric. And right at $2000 for hydro. Normally on any steering systems we tell people they can figure $2000 front or rear By the time you buy orbital pump ram hoses all that small **** adds up fast

I would not run rear steer unless it was the exact setup you had on beatdown. Best thing I have ever driven! :****:

sleepsontoilet · May 1, 2017

NTIDWELL said:
I would not waste your money on two p style pumps I did not like mine I did like my two TC pumps i ran a stazsworks setup and loved it I would recommend running them one pump front one pump rear With them ran together it's slows way down when using both at the same time I would also look at running a 2.5x10 instead of the 3x9 all my rams and components was psc. Electric is nice in a way of you have steering with out motor running so getting back to the trailer is a little easier when you have a rod hanging out the side of your block Price wise thinking $1000 for electric. And right at $2000 for hydro. Normally on any steering systems we tell people they can figure $2000 front or rear By the time you buy orbital pump ram hoses all that small **** adds up fast

I was expecting 2k, not $3200. Jesse Haines, Steve Johns, and Dave Wong all run the fancy cbr with 3x9 rams on their portal crawlers. It gives the perfect amount of throw for the steering Jesse designed, that's why I want to run them. I appreciate the experience, as I know over one person with an electric system and he sold it years ago.

sleepsontoilet · May 1, 2017

BUG-E J said:
I would not run rear steer unless it was the exact setup you had on beatdown. Best thing I have ever driven! :****:

It will be trail wheeled, but Werock/Trail Hero events when I can make them. Hence the front and rear steer portals. I'm trying to build this one without sponsors, but be realistic too. I think a quality system should be $2200-2400, 3k plus just seems like paying 80k for a truck that's tailgate closes itself vs. a work truck for the farm.

BUG-E J · May 1, 2017

sleepsontoilet said:
It will be trail wheeled, but Werock/Trail Hero events when I can make them. Hence the front and rear steer portals. I'm trying to build this one without sponsors, but be realistic too. I think a quality system should be $2200-2400, 3k plus just seems like paying 80k for a truck that's tailgate closes itself vs. a work truck for the farm.

Yeah if you don't want self center, high speed steering as fast or faster than the front, and the stick to control how far the tires actually go those log splitter valves do work great

Bebop · May 1, 2017

Jesse Haines runs a log splitter valve.

BUG-E J · May 1, 2017

Bebop said:
Jesse Haines runs a log splitter valve.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it but there is no way in hell I would go that route. I will never have rear steer because I can't afford the stazworks kit and do it correct. I have driven the log splitter type and it's just to much of a pita.