Roll cage design for worst case scenario?

[RusM]

So on Friday on my way up to Twin Lakes I had a bit of a scare on I-5. Some drunk or old person decided to merge into my tire and luckily the flashing lights and horn were enough to ge them to stop merging before we hit. If we did hit I'm sure we would both have been in bad shape and I think they may have over corrected and spun out anyways.
What sort of cage design do I need to make a 65mph roll or a bad roll off a coiff wheeling survivable? Is this even possible? Has anyone in the area built a cage that's been tested in similar situations? :bananallama:

 

[chainsaw]

Well race car cages are built for high speeds, but damn that'll add alot of weight. Just drive safe!t

 

[Binder]

So on Friday on my way up to Twin Lakes I had a bit of a scare on I-5. Some drunk or old person decided to merge into my tire and luckily the flashing lights and horn were enough to ge them to stop merging before we hit. If we did hit I'm sure we would both have been in bad shape and I think they may have over corrected and spun out anyways.
What sort of ca:awesomework:gel design do I need to make a 65mph roll or a bad roll off a coiff wheeling survivable? Is this even possible? Has anyone in the area built a cage that's been tested in similar situations? :bananallama:

S n N Bravo. Highway rollover tested.:awesomework:

 

[Jeepasaurusrex]

Build your cage out of chrome-moly. You can use a smaller tube size (saves weight) and still get the strength of a larger, heavier DOM tube. Our sprint car chassis are built from 4130 Chrome-Moly and can take a serious hit at 80+mph. Part of surviving an accident at that speeds is cage design, but seat, seat belts, head and neck restraints, are all part of the equation.

This is what happens when you hit the wall sideways at WOT. Something has to give, but was able to walk away.

 

[KarlVP]

WHITE TRASH did an ass over teakettle down a cliff. Not sure how fast he was going when he got to the bottom, but him and his wife survived with minor injuries.

 

[NotSoPC]

X2 on the Chromo. Allot of rigs build for hits at high speed are also built to have some give in the cage. The cage may be out of shape and not good to use again but the driver walks away. For a wheeling rig just have a good well built inner cage and 5 point belts. Run some tube for doors bars. A well built and braced inner cage in the cab of a truck (like a Toyota) would be able to hold up to a good roll at speed. Make sure it is tied into the frame at all points. You could also run it out the back of the cab to the bed and though the fire wall to the engine bay for added support and to help hold the whole rig from coming apart. Removable steering wheel so you can still get out after a bad roll.

The hard part of building a cage to roll at speed is also having it set up to still be able to get in and out easy. If this is a trail rig then you could be getting in and out many times a day on the trail and don't want to make it more of a pain then it needs to be.

 

[nowires]

Do a search of spec for
NHRA


Cromo cages are to ridged for everyday they will crack in all of the wrong places


At least that is what I was told

 

[crash2]

The big issue I see with having a cage that can take what you ask--is there are many other factors that will come into play for survival. Simply put a well built cage might not fail but your body will without a proper seat, full belt kit at all times--you won't get that out of a stick seat and a shoulder belt.

 

[TreeClimber]

Most, if not all, new or nearly new vehicles are EXTREMELY safe.

I would much much rather be in a 2011 Kia Optima and do a 360* barrel roll down the highway, than I would want to do the same in my YJ, which has a 8 point cage, with a LOT of crossbracing, and full 5 point harness.

The new car, will simply deform, absorb energy, with 6 air bags, including shoulder airbags, frontal airbags, and full side curtain airbags.

The Jeep will bounce around like a pinball, with me strapped inside.

I think both have great safety features.

 

[wayne_fj40]

The big issue I see with having a cage that can take what you ask--is there are many other factors that will come into play for survival. Simply put a well built cage might not fail but your body will without a proper seat, full belt kit at all times--you won't get that out of a stick seat and a shoulder belt.

Crash built mine I like it and feel like a Mack truck could go over me.but as Mike stated some of the other factors seats,and harnesses.

 

[RusM]

Stick seat? :redneck:

The problem with cro-mo is the heating to make it as strong as it can be. According to an engineer I know you have to have a really intense heating and thermocontrol cooling process to get the ultimate strengths the material is capable of. A process that isn't practical at all in a full-bodied yota.

I've got PRP suspension seats sitting in the garage right now waiting to be installed, need to pick up some harness' still. I probably won't ever wear a helmet, neckroll, hans, etc... so I could still do more.
I really want a light, cheap :rb: exo that looks badass and can survive a 100mph rollover while being run over by a nuclear powered tank! :masturbanana[1]:

 

[Jeepasaurusrex]

Chrome-moly has to be TIG welded and the welds annealed for max strength. Take a field trip to the XXX sprint car chassis facility up in Skagit County.

 

[Binder]

Cromo isn't a cage it's a material. The material itself has to be heat treated to get the benefits of the material which isn't going to happen as said earlier. Now given that materials don't have strength, shapes have strength. Cage design has more impact than anything.

 

[Broken Again]

X2 on the last 2 posts.
Chromoly can fail if not heat treated. I saw first hand a couple of weeks ago when my friends buggy frame broke in crash. There were 10 or 12 broken TUBES in the heat affected zone next to the welds. Each tube broke about 1/8 to 1/4 inch away from the weld joint. This was a well designed frame....but not heat treated.
4130 and 4340 will become brittle and are subject to cracking and breaking near the weld...it's all about the Martensite.

Looking back at 120 mph rides I took in that buggy sends chills down my spine.

Pic of the buggy here, but I don't have any pics of the broken frame.
http://www.nw-wheelers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56808&highlight=buggy


edit:
http://www.netwelding.com/Heat_Treated_4130.htm

 

[crapyota]

few years ago i ended up in the hospital for 9 days after my rollover experience on i-5.
same scenerio guy merged into us without stopping hit me right in the passenger front tire sent me off the edge at 60 started to drift sideways caught the edge went tumbling 2 1/2 rolls slide thru the safty cable on our roof.. our seatbelts deffintly saved our lives!! i could feel them tighten,and hold me tight in my seat. i could barely move my arm over to my gf as we were rolling..
worst part was this all happened after a hard day of bending tube ,and welding a cage into my wheeler..
the cab of the truck(ford ranger) held amazingly. but i fear with a cage in the vehicle getting us out upside down in a mangled mess would have been time consuming. when we stopped moving i couldnt open doors. cab was tweaked,gas was leaking(just filled tank) and several people trying to pull doors open from outside.. my door opened and we climbed out. but with a cage and extra door bars would i have been able to get out this easy,and quick with out real emergency proffesionals with cutting tools,or would i have been stuck,with gas leaking all over and bystanders watching without being able to help...

now im sure someone will say a basic cage is gonna help,but i believe in this case,like in most cage builds.the builder would realy need to consider major mods to make the cage truly benificial..

 

[Travis1]

Planning for the "worst case scenario", I would be more concerned about how energy is absorbed and mass is released to minimize the impact on my body - than the rigidity of the cage.

Doesn't do any good to build a cage that can survive a 100G since your body can't.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/carcr2.html

 

[CHOP SHOP]

We as wheelers tend to "overuse" a cage for reasons not related to safety.

We tend to hit trees and rocks and other rigs and flop and roll. All of these things can ruin a normal cage.

We then look to things like plate steel and DOM to strengthen things up cuz not everyone can build a new cage any time they tip over or hit a tree and deform the cage.

So to keep the wheeler working week after week, we "overbuild" the cage.

Now this overbuilt cage has no ability to absorb energy in a serious hit.

Most racecars that use Chromo tube are either very abusive to chassis (top fuel engines destroy things with large vibes and forces) or crash often and are made to withstand hits. These kinds of cars have different kinds of safety devices/equip made to help soften the blow.

Most racecars are built with safety in mind and longevity next in line. most drag cars and roundy rounds are not meant to take a hit to the wall or roll over and be in serviceable shape afterwards. They are meant to protect the driver and are usually made of HREW and will deform and absorb some impact while keeping the driver safe.

Most stock cars and drag cars tend to be junk after a good roll or wall hit and the driver doesnt mind buying a new chassis after the last "soft" one saved his life.


A good mix in a weekend race car would be a dom passenger cage with hrew around the outers to act as a cushion.

New cars like Tony sells have a inner shell made of stronger steel in the A,B,C pillars and bars inside the doors and then are wrapped in soft sheetmetal. This way the car absorbs/crushes somewhat and the passenger compartment will hold its shape keeping you safer.

I read a tech bulletin at the firehouse about updated "Jaws of Life" jaws. It seems the new cars (moslty started by euro imports, bmw,audi,MB,VW,subi,volvo) have steel tube inside the roof pillars that are a harder Rockwell hardness than the cutting blades on the jaws of life. This led to problems cutting people out of such safe cars until they got harder cutting jaws.

Now cheaper companies like KIA etc have started to build the same way. That how they get the safety ratings so high on these shitty little cars.

 

[CHOP SHOP]

Just buy a safe new FULLSIZE truck and a trailer and stop fighting it.

 

[TreeClimber]

This is pretty damn accurate.

We as wheelers tend to "overuse" a cage for reasons not related to safety.

We tend to hit trees and rocks and other rigs and flop and roll. All of these things can ruin a normal cage.

We then look to things like plate steel and DOM to strengthen things up cuz not everyone can build a new cage any time they tip over or hit a tree and deform the cage.

So to keep the wheeler working week after week, we "overbuild" the cage.

Now this overbuilt cage has no ability to absorb energy in a serious hit.

Most racecars that use Chromo tube are either very abusive to chassis (top fuel engines destroy things with large vibes and forces) or crash often and are made to withstand hits. These kinds of cars have different kinds of safety devices/equip made to help soften the blow.

Most racecars are built with safety in mind and longevity next in line. most drag cars and roundy rounds are not meant to take a hit to the wall or roll over and be in serviceable shape afterwards. They are meant to protect the driver and are usually made of HREW and will deform and absorb some impact while keeping the driver safe.

Most stock cars and drag cars tend to be junk after a good roll or wall hit and the driver doesnt mind buying a new chassis after the last "soft" one saved his life.


A good mix in a weekend race car would be a dom passenger cage with hrew around the outers to act as a cushion.

New cars like Tony sells have a inner shell made of stronger steel in the A,B,C pillars and bars inside the doors and then are wrapped in soft sheetmetal. This way the car absorbs/crushes somewhat and the passenger compartment will hold its shape keeping you safer.

I read a tech bulletin at the firehouse about updated "Jaws of Life" jaws. It seems the new cars (moslty started by euro imports, bmw,audi,MB,VW,subi,volvo) have steel tube inside the roof pillars that are a harder Rockwell hardness than the cutting blades on the jaws of life. This led to problems cutting people out of such safe cars until they got harder cutting jaws.

Now OTHER companies like KIA etc have started to build the same way. That how they get the safety ratings so high on these shitty little cars.

 

[mark]

We as wheelers tend to "overuse" a cage for reasons not related to safety.

We tend to hit trees and rocks and other rigs and flop and roll. All of these things can ruin a normal cage.

We then look to things like plate steel and DOM to strengthen things up cuz not everyone can build a new cage any time they tip over or hit a tree and deform the cage.

So to keep the wheeler working week after week, we "overbuild" the cage.

Now this overbuilt cage has no ability to absorb energy in a serious hit.

Most racecars that use Chromo tube are either very abusive to chassis (top fuel engines destroy things with large vibes and forces) or crash often and are made to withstand hits. These kinds of cars have different kinds of safety devices/equip made to help soften the blow.

Most racecars are built with safety in mind and longevity next in line. most drag cars and roundy rounds are not meant to take a hit to the wall or roll over and be in serviceable shape afterwards. They are meant to protect the driver and are usually made of HREW and will deform and absorb some impact while keeping the driver safe.

Most stock cars and drag cars tend to be junk after a good roll or wall hit and the driver doesnt mind buying a new chassis after the last "soft" one saved his life.


A good mix in a weekend race car would be a dom passenger cage with hrew around the outers to act as a cushion.

New cars like Tony sells have a inner shell made of stronger steel in the A,B,C pillars and bars inside the doors and then are wrapped in soft sheetmetal. This way the car absorbs/crushes somewhat and the passenger compartment will hold its shape keeping you safer.

I read a tech bulletin at the firehouse about updated "Jaws of Life" jaws. It seems the new cars (moslty started by euro imports, bmw,audi,MB,VW,subi,volvo) have steel tube inside the roof pillars that are a harder Rockwell hardness than the cutting blades on the jaws of life. This led to problems cutting people out of such safe cars until they got harder cutting jaws.

Now cheaper companies like KIA etc have started to build the same way. That how they get the safety ratings so high on these shitty little cars.

X2

RusM are you talking wheeler or DD? If you have a newer DD and its in good shape (not a rust bucket) your probably pretty good. If your worried a simple hoop bar behind the front seat will do a great deal in keeping the cab from crushing.

If you have an older rig, I would definitely think about some sort of DOM bar or even cage to keep the top from folding. I have seen pictures of guys with old "built like tanks" IH trucks and Scouts that flopped and the tops just FOLDED. Even a simple, non braced bar would have helped tremendously.