• Help Support Hardline Crawlers :

Some full hydro issues...

NotMatt

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
5,245
Location
Wenatchee
Where to start... yikes. So I have a full hydro setup pieced together from various stuff that seems to work great moving around the driveway and driving around some back roads.

However, after taking it out wheeling for the first time, I've noticed a few issues and I'm hoping maybe some of you a little more knowledgeable can point me in the right direction.

First things first... I'm running a brand new Eaton 8" single ended 2" bore ram that I limited internally to about 7" of throw. For the pump, I ordered a brand new PSC Saginaw TC high flow pump with JIC fittings. I'm running a brand new "radiator-style" fluid cooler with JIC#6 fittings on both in and out, and brand new finned aluminum resevoir with built-in spin-off filter. I'm running a Parker Hydraguide HGF12426 steering valve, which is 4.95 cu in/rev displacement, closed center with a power beyond port. This part is the only used piece in the system.

The resevoir is mounted above the inlet on the pump, just barely. I have it mounted on the firewall, an the outlet of the resevoir is about an inch above the inlet on the pump on level ground. The fluid level on the resevoir should be above the inlet on the pump except for under the most extreme steep hills, because it's a tall/thin resevoir... The cooler is mounted in front of the radiator. I've plumbed the power beyond port into a T back into the inlet line on the cooler (guy at Parker told me to do this, not cap it off), the outlet line runs back into the resevoir. I'm running regular prestone-brand power steering fluid NOT ATF or hydro fluid, per PSC's instructions.

Here are my issues... the pump is LOUD after everything warms up... at idle or just above it's not bad, but when I start actually making forward progress in low range with a little bit of steering input, it gets very loud. So loud it makes me think I'm killing the pump. Once I stop steering, all is fine.

2nd problem... part way through the day I started having problems turning left (pulling the ram in). Don't know if this was related to heat or what, but I could turn the wheel and it would steering to a certain point, then get really stiff and I could still turn the wheel but the ram was not pulling back in.

Anybody have any thoughts here? I know it's a long shot... I tried bleeding the system a second, third, 4th time. There should be no air in it whatsoever. I did have some heat problems with the engine at the first part of the day, but it stayed under 210 for the duration of the trail we ran, so I don't think I would be passing heat to the hydraulics through the rad mounted cooler.

Thoughts?

[EDIT]: Woah long read... cliff notes... new full hydro setup has noisy pump and problems turning left. What possibilities or where to start troubleshooting?

PS I will post a few pictures of the whole setup tonight.
 
From my experience and research, you need a valve with more cubic inches of displacement... Mine is 7.5... Also it should be open center not closed...
 
From my experience and research, you need a valve with more cubic inches of displacement... Mine is 7.5... Also it should be open center not closed...

I'll have to double check the part number on the valve... I know I looked it up and talked to a rep at parker and was told it would work fine, it may have been open center not closed... but if I recall right the closed center vs. open had something to do with it having the power-beyond port.

One thing I'm trying to line up is to borrow a steering valve without the power beyond business from a buddy to see if it works any better.
 
The closed center valve is the problem. You probably killed the PS pump already. With an automotive style PS pump you need an open center valve so you aren't dead heading the pump when not steering.
 
Just looked up that part number. HGF12426 says it is an open center reversing valve. It doesn't appear to be the right part number for a power beyond valve though.

http://www.parker.com/literature/HY13-1560-002 HGF Cat.pdf

The single ended ram could be a problem with a reversing valve. Reversing is the same as load reactive, you are supposed to run a balanced cylinder with a load reactive valve.
 
Actually, I'm wrong. I misread the parker catalog interpreting the number... is is a "Power Beyond, non-reversing"..... I looked up the e-mail I got from a guy at Parker... he said "the power beyond port is to run other accessories like rear steer. you MUST have the power beyond port return back to your resevoir if you don't have another accessory to run from it, do not cap it or it will act as a closed center valve and burn up your pump when you're not steering".

So, it's closed center technically... but because it has the power beyond port, the excess flows out that to the resevoir when not steering, and out the regular return port when you are steering. They both return back to the resevoir in my system, so it should not be an issue.
 
Just looked up that part number. HGF12426 says it is an open center reversing valve. It doesn't appear to be the right part number for a power beyond valve though.

http://www.parker.com/literature/HY13-1560-002 HGF Cat.pdf

The single ended ram could be a problem with a reversing valve. Reversing is the same as load reactive, you are supposed to run a balanced cylinder with a load reactive valve.

It's not a reversing valve.

HGF12426 according to the parker catalog.... 12 is for 4.95 CI/rev, 4 is for female side port SAE#6 O-ring, 2 is for no relief, and 6 is "Power beyond, nonreversing"
 
Yes, that is correct on the power-beyond port. It sounds like you have it plumbed correctly. Non-reversing is also correct for your single-ended ram.

Sounds like you have a restriction some where if the pump gets loud. Do you have a lot of hard 90* fittings in your plumbing? How is the T fitting where the 2 return lines go in to the cooler oriented?
 
Yes, that is correct on the power-beyond port. It sounds like you have it plumbed correctly. Non-reversing is also correct for your single-ended ram.

Sounds like you have a restriction some where if the pump gets loud. Do you have a lot of hard 90* fittings in your plumbing? How is the T fitting where the 2 return lines go in to the cooler oriented?

It's a T with a 90 degree fitting on it... return and power beyond line come out of the side ports each with a 90, wrap around the front of the rad. The return line runs straight into the cooler, power beyond goes into a 90 and then into a T fitting in the return line. I suppose this could definitely be an issue. I'll post a pic when I'm home from work.
 
I'm dealing with a power beyond valve right now too. I specifically wanted to avoid T-ing the 2 return lines together, you can kind of see pics of how I dealt with it in this thread http://www.off-camber.com/forum/topic/310-hydraulic-hoses/

I used a heatsink style cooler with 2 ports on one end and then drilled and tapped it for another port on the other end.

I also saw some AN Y shaped fittings on summit that I was considering using until I came up with the cooler plan.

I won't have mine running until tonight or tomorrow though, so I can't say how it worked out for sure.
 
IMO, I would steer clear of the power beyond valves and stick with a 4 port unless you're running a rear steer set up... The restriction of the 90s and t will create more heat...
 
Fwiw, I've ran my system with no issues until I over heated it by not running a cooler... It still took over a year to cook my pump... 4 port open center non load reacting 7.5 c.i., 2x8 single ended with a stock Chevy pump... 44 tsl welded front and rear...
 
Well, after some pondering and figuring... I decided to simplify things a bit. I don't ever plan on having rear steer in this rig, so I'm going to find another steering valve... since the one I have is a bit slow to begin with, and has the extra plumbing issues with the power beyond port.

I've got a surplus center catalog in front of me and they have a charlynn valve that looks like it will work perfect. Anyone have any other good sources for steering valves I can order from? I thought about the trail gear one, it's a lot cheaper but it's also load-reactive so that might not be so good with my single ended ram... hmm.
 
There's a place over here that sells forklift parts and everyone I've sent to him has picked up a valve with steering shaft for $100... Not sure if he'll ship... I can get you the info...
 
Update... got a new orbital, one of the "Global Steering" ones made in bulgaria that Trail Gear re-brands and sells, ordered it from Midwest Directional. It's a 4 port 7.56 cu in/rev and I eliminated the T'ed return lines and now have a straight fitting going into the valve from the pump, and straight fittings going from valve to cooler back to resevoir. It turns great and feels much better than the old valve, sort of....

I spent some time trying to bleed it last night, and I feel like I'm not getting all the air all the way out. It has a hard spot that moves around sort of randomly in the steering... mainly when changing directions. Sort of "notchy"...

Anybody got any tips on getting it bled? I didn't have nearly the issues with the old valve, but my theory is that the seals were loose in that one which allowed the air in the ram to bleed out more easily.
 
I'm glad that I just called PSC, gave them my specs and ordered a complete kit.
 
Top