some state laws and wheeling

[Binder]

It is unlawful to own, possess or have in control any firearm by a person:

.......................criminal trespass in 1st degree,.........



This is what I was talking about for loss of gun rights for 1st degree.

1st degree trespass is only when entering a building, doesn't apply here.

 

[The_Shocker]

Do you know about them? Never seen you out that way......

Last time I said MATTAWA (Saddle Mtn) you girls got your panties in a bunch.

 

[Ty.]

1st degree trespass is only when entering a building, doesn't apply here.

Good to know.. Thanks.:awesomework:

 

[Binder]

Good to know.. Thanks.:awesomework:

Information- It's what this thread is all about.

 

[Money Mark]

Last time I said MATTAWA (Saddle Mtn) you girls got your panties in a bunch.

I don't wear panties, I free-ball it.:redneck:

And the places I speak of are on this side of the mountains. Saddle Mountain is novelty area, for me. Couple more trips and I'm over it.

I want some more local wheeling.:awesomework:

 

[blue1gen]

***Full disclosure: I'm NOT a lawyer. These laws are my interpretation, please interpret at your own discretion and debate me if you think I'm wrong on my interpretation!***

Started doing some digging around for those on the forum who like to wheel where they shouldn't... and wanted to point out some relevant state laws:

a) trespass law.
Usually, you'd be cited for a misdemeanor, second degree trespass as defined here: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.52.080
A person is guilty of criminal trespass in the second degree if he knowingly enters or remains unlawfully in or upon premises of another under circumstances not constituting criminal trespass in the first degree.

However, you have to define 'enters or remains unlawfully' for this statue to stick. Thats where 9A.52.010 comes in...
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.52.010
A person who enters or remains upon unimproved and apparently unused land, which is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders, does so with license and privilege unless notice against trespass is personally communicated to him by the owner of the land or some other authorized person, or unless notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner. Land that is used for commercial aquaculture or for growing an agricultural crop or crops, other than timber, is not unimproved and apparently unused land if a crop or any other sign of cultivation is clearly visible or if notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner.

Important: Do not chop or damage trees!
IF you're caught damaging or harvesting trees, you can be assessed treble amount of its production worth! This applies to public AND private land.

Trespassing on State Land:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=332-52-400
Where are motorized and nonmotorized vehicles permitted off of a road or trail? Persons shall only operate motorized or nonmotorized vehicles off of a road or trail on lands posted or otherwise designated by the department as open for the designated recreational use. All other off-road or off-trail vehicular use is prohibited.
Any violation of this section is an infraction under chapter 7.84 RCW. Key point about 7.84RCW. This is an INFRACTION. This means you cannot receive a ticket over $500, you should not have your vehicle impounded (unless you have another infraction like suspended license), etc.

It'd seem that private land owners would wanna work with us. Otherwise rouge 4x4s can just tear up stuff and they have little recourse... that is unless they catch us actually ruining harvest-able timber, which is another story on its own. Also, as per 43.12.065 -- DNR officers cannot enforce laws on private land.

What I'm encouraging is that we, the wheeling community, TALK AND NEGOTIATE with private land owners. They have a problem: WHEELERS. We have a solution! manage their 'illegal' trails.

The problem with DNR is that they have the letter of the law behind them, making it very easy to close land and enforce it. Private timber companies have it the other way. Therefore, they might have more of an incentive to work with us to reduce damage to their timber

PS. Rieter has been technically illegal from state law point of view since a change in WACs made only designated trails legal. However political pressure kept DNR from enforcing the law.

:awesomework:

thats some great ifo in my opinnion

 

[Reise]

An interesting read, to say the least.

I would suggest that landowners should weigh in on this issue.

Anybody with under say.......15 ? acres need not apply. When you get to larger tracts of land, you lose the ability to visually "patrol" the happenings on your property. For most, you also have a job and need to sleep at some point, so you cannot continuously police every acre.

I will speak for myself, owning 180 acres of land........ I have cleaned up your junk, your dead animals, dealt with your fires, the ruts you leave in my fields, rebuilt the fences that are damaged and dealt with the theft that occurred from access across areas unseen.

Having said that, and having dealt with the cops on a couple of occasions involving uh "trespass".............

WHEN you get caught, the land owner does not know your intentions, he WILL recognize your IGNORANCE for being on what is not rightfully yours. I would expect to be met with open hostility. Why ? It is about money. You go on private land, for the most part, every land owner in my area has had some sort of damage/clean up/theft. These all cost the land owner money. At times, very large amounts of money.

There are portions of this thread that seem to find it ok to bend the law into fitting their own needs/interpretation for the moment.

Keep that in mind when you trespass and get caught. The land owner may do the EXACT same thing.

 

[Ty.]

[QUOTE=Reise

 

[Reise]

If you are implying shooting a tresspasser, that is a very large twist of logic to consider that o.k. There are no "grey areas," when you pull a trigger.

Wheelin' an unposted trail, or even blazing a trail in an unposted area is not punishable by death. If I were ever shot at, whoever is shooting better kill me with the first shot, becouse there is ablolutely NO GREY AREA for self defense.

Mmmmm............ok. You can spin it that way if you wish. Or perhaps you could look at it from the perspective that when u enter private land the land owner has no idea what your intentions are. Maybe you just decided to trespass, maybe you are looking to steal, perhaps vandalism, get lucky with the girlfriend, or kick my back door in.

Here is my point, I do NOT know what your intentions are. I have dealt with each of the aforementioned incidents personally. To dismiss trespassing easily lends itself to interpretation, as does how the land owner interacts with you.

And you are right, THERE IS NO GREY AREA FOR SELF DEFENSE, you are on private property that is POSTED, given the right scenario, that could be perceived as a threat to a landowner.

 

[gasman1]

I am with Reise

 

[Ty.]

[QUOTE=Reise

 

[japerry]

[QUOTE=Reise

 

[dirtygoat]

This is just stupid...

All of this can be avoided...

Just don't do it...

 

[Money Mark]

This is just stupid...

All of this can be avoided...

Just don't do it...

Who are you trying to protect? DNR? Timber companies? Joe Public?

Your enthusiasm seems mis-guided.:eeek: Or am I interpreting this incorrectly?

 

[Reise]

I understand your concern. I have personally went after people on my land, and my neighbors land with shotgun in hand. I could not however justify raising it at them, or shooting at them unless I was in immenent danger myself. I didn't have it for threatening them. I had it as insurance if they wanted to get froggy.

I am of the same mind set, not real certain where I got it that I was gonna ghost anybody for trespassing. I do make certain that I am not naive' in my approach to anyone on my place. But approach them I do. I have lost too much and dealt with the trash and vandalism. In the end, trespassing costs me money. ME. Same as stealing it from me.

This is getting derailed for my intent.

We are arguing deadly force, which is thread unto itself.

On trespassing, I am saying that your probably going to get someone with a shitty attitude when you get caught. Be smart, we are getting so much land taken away that as a group we cannot afford to do things that will alienate people, adding to the ranks of people who see those who wheel as satan.

I just happen to be in a position of seeing it from a land owners perspective as well as a person who loves to wheel. I work in the woods for a living, mainly for the timber industry, but I also spend allot of time in farm country during harvest.

It may ONLY a misdemeanor, but the people who deal with the trespassers, the land owners, care takers, timber companies that have had severe vandilism, farmers, all of them, THEY HATE IT. Do we as a group need to add any more fuel to the fires being built against us ?

 

[Money Mark]

[QUOTE=Reise

 

[Money Mark]

[QUOTE=Reise

 

[notstock]

You guys are welcome to come and wheel my land if you are willing to make the 5 hour drive to get there. All my no trespassing signs have a phone number on them. I have had people call for permission to hunt during hunting season and have given a few that permission due to the fact that they called before trespassing. It is the few that feel they have the right to enter and to hell with you that are met by my neighbor with his mini14 that will and do get prosecuted. A couple dirt bikers learned the hard way after threatening the Sheriff when he showed up last year. So yes, fostering a relationship with the landowner works much better than the flat out I don't give a **** who's land it is, I am going to go where I want attitude. At least with me it works that way.

 

[Money Mark]

You guys are welcome to come and wheel my land.....

Thank you.

This is the true direction of the thread......Or, at least the way I look at it.

 

[Ty.]

You guys are welcome to come and wheel my land if you are willing to make the 5 hour drive to get there. All my no trespassing signs have a phone number on them. I have had people call for permission to hunt during hunting season and have given a few that permission due to the fact that they called before trespassing. It is the few that feel they have the right to enter and to hell with you that are met by my neighbor with his mini14 that will and do get prosecuted. A couple dirt bikers learned the hard way after threatening the Sheriff when he showed up last year. So yes, fostering a relationship with the landowner works much better than the flat out I don't give a **** who's land it is, I am going to go where I want attitude. At least with me it works that way.

I think you're baiting me to blow my head off.:redneck: