The great pic debate.

[KarlVP]

Is it okay to post pics like these below on a website which promotes responsible wheeling?

Reason I ask, when the Tamers were on the busywild in Elbe, there were a few pics of some of the rigs in the group, with mud a flying. While it wasn't tearing it up, it sure does look like it on film. There was a mild debate whether or not to put those pics up on our site.

What do you see in the pictures below? Do you see wheelers having fun or do you see someone "tearing it up."

 

[MarcW]

top pic looks like possible resource damage, whats the trail look like dry? The middle one looks like an established mud pit, and the tj looks harmless :flipoff:

 

[Symon623]

I feel if your in a designated area where it's legal to wheel, like Elbe Hills or the dunes or wherever. You can Rip all you want on the trails. Sometimes you have to display the skinny pedal to complete an obstical. I never went to Rimrock and "crawled" any of the hills.....But I also didn't go just to test the winch either. I run a built 327 for a reason.

Pic 1; Havin fun in a designated area, on a designated trail bound to get this kind of use. :super:

Pic 2: On the fence with this one cos it looks like a powerline trail and not an actual OHV area? :redneck:

Pic 3: No worries...Dunes repair themselves by the next day. :Good:

This is MO.....

 

[toyota4x4matt]

the TJ is tearing it up wtf. jk looks like fun to me

 

[zig80toy]

They all look legit to me...

 

[Mrs. Crusty]

This first pic is very questionable. The "greenies" rolleyes: lacking for better words) would be ALL over that. but that's just IMHO.........

 

[JACKED944RUNNER]

1st one is a damaging photo. The others are fine. I just think that the first one shows how a hole become an impassable pit.

 

[Rock_Crusher]

I feel if your in a designated area where it's legal to wheel, like Elbe Hills or the dunes or wherever. You can Rip all you want on the trails. Sometimes you have to display the skinny pedal to complete an obstical. I never went to Rimrock and "crawled" any of the hills.....But I also didn't go just to test the winch either. I run a built 327 for a reason.

Pic 1; Havin fun in a designated area, on a designated trail bound to get this kind of use. :super:

this is where I'll agree / and some will disagree....

sure it's "about" responsible wheeling - but like you stated, most think or look at it this way,

Hey, i'am on a trail system, i'm staying on the trail, it's for offroading, and i'm spinning my tires & digging holes only on the trail... so whats the problem?

this is mostly how everyone of us look at the problem... if it is one even.

it comes down to that statement above... and only that one. most will respect the area's around the trail system or have some kind of understanding for not destroying the area. while they figure into play that the trail itself is game - fairgame -

and heres where i agree, the trail should be maintained - and there should not be limits to how one drives / wheels or what they use to wheel with.
it should boil down to -

if the rig fits & it's a trail... go for it!

but the users should also get off their asses that use it & help maintain it too! too many go out and have fun, and expect others to repair the damage.
it's damage alright, but thats what makes a trail different / challenging & keeps things going... trail maintence / upkeeping.

AS FOR PICTURES (?) just about anyone can turn something around positive / negitive - or make it look like something it's not.
it's just like being on the trail... just because you wheel a certain way...

does that mean everyone else is wrong?

do others need to walk there rig through the trail or plow through it?

can one spin / dig the tires?

or should we be regulated as to how we drive on a trail system? or with what type / size rig?

it really boils down to - USER UPKEEP OF THE TRAIL

 

[Rock_Crusher]

it really boils down to - USER UPKEEP OF THE TRAIL

oh, again...

this is all that should matter...

if the area is surveyed and found to be in good standing... whats the problem? if the rangers see that the users are keeping the place tidy?
the trails meet specific areas - erosion / water run-off / protected areas / etc

thats what it boils down to, if the trail makes the passing grade... and is regularly upkept... fawk tha greenies & anyone else. - can you understand?

 

[Bunk1]

the first one isnt good. the other 2 are allright.

 

[Freeride]

While I personally HATE mud, if it's a legit area, then go for it! There are plenty of mud pits up at Reiter that I have no problem with people tearing it up.

It's not about the "type" of wheeling, it's the "location". Unfortunately, location is tough to determine from a picture.

 

[Freeride]

Also, I for one will not live in fear and trembling of the sniveling greenies seeing a damn picture.

 

[Mrs. Crusty]

It's not about the "type" of wheeling, it's the "location". Unfortunately, location is tough to determine from a picture.

BINGO! hence= giving the "greenies" enough ammunition to get trails closed down.

 

[Freeride]

Have pictures from an environmental group ever caused a trail to get closed down?

 

[KarlVP]

They can and do use them as "proof" that we destroy the environment. I don't know if you saw or hearad about the radio broadcast regarding the dust that 4x4 enthusiasts create in moab that harms the environment. It was a big thing about the damage that 4x4's creat to the fragile ecosystem. There were all sorts of pics and video of 4x4 using the land.

I know all it would take is a picture of buck meadows before and after motorized use on memorial day weekend. They could say, look at this pristine environment, and after one weekend this is what happens.

IMO, is isn't the pictures of people in the act, it is the pictures of the damage caused. When it is in a legal 4x4, quad, bike area. I am all for it, for the most part, we do maintain our trails, if they get out of hand, the majority of us do what it takes to make things right again. If you want to fling a little mud, go ahead. If you want to "tear it up" go to the dunes or to your local mud bog.

I really like the pictures of mud slinging, fire breathing wheelers doing thier thing. I am personally not a big fan of mud cause it's such a pain to clean up, but from time to time I like to get my Jeep dirty. I'm not going to go pull a lawn job in my boss' neighborhood, nor am I going to go and drive where I am not supposed to, but when I want to go and have fun, and take pics to prove it, I expect not to be hassled.

 

[heepofajeep]

Assuming that the pictures are in a legal area, post away!

There are enough pictures online that if a greenie wants to find a destructive "looking" picture, it is just a one-minute endeavor searching through Google images.

 

[Comet]

LOOOONG: It's not what we think about any wheeling pics and whether or not they are or "look" legit. It's what John Q. Public thinks about it. And if the greenies are good at one thing, it's taking things out of context, whether it's words or pics, and supporting their story with it. Fortunately there have been a couple well publicized cases where they were caught with their pants down trying to make people think one thing, when something entirely different is actually happening. Their credibility is tarnished a bit and some decision makers are now asking questions they never used to. However, the sympathetic public is still way over on their side.
My personal opinions of posting pics is that I don't particularly like it. Again, just my personal opinion. But here's the conundrum for me. I am the moderator of the trails section. Crash made it very clear to me and I share his belief's that no offending pics (tree climbing, wheeling in known closed areas, etc) were to be posted on his site. The challenge for me is I tend to have a very narrow view of what is acceptable to post based on my beliefs. It has nothing to do with whether the pic is legit or not, but everything to do with what John Q. Public would think. Well, I understand that pics are a big part of the internet forums and people enjoy taking them and looking (me too in fact!). But I was really concerned when he asked me to be a mod. of how I would go about keeping things cool and fun without being an overbearing control freak :redneck: We have had to send PMs to a couple people, and they have been very understanding, but it's all in how you approach them. Anyway, I must say, overall I am pretty impressed with the conscientiousness of NWW members. Even this discussion shows an awareness of the issue and therefore concern.
One pic of one guy is most likely not going to shut an area down unless he is doing something really stupid. But why get the ball rolling?
Bottom line, deep down you know if you are doing something stupid or wrong. If you are, don't post it. If you have any doubts as to whether or not you think it might be inappropriate, then my guess is you already know it's wrong or at least questionable. So far I think most people understand that concept on NWW
Crash or I can answer those questions or review any pics for you if you aren't sure via PM.

 

[Mrs. Crusty]

........

Was wondering how long it was going to take you to chime in! Took you long enough! :redneck: :kiss: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

 

[Brian H]

I think all the pics are ok.# 1 pic looks like part of the trail.All the rest are fine also.That tj is just a tj ,harmless!!!!

 

[GrandZJ]

good with the bad?

I know lot's of us pick up trash when we go wheeling, post up your clean up pic's with your wheeling pic's. It's a give and take relationship with "mother earth" we should'nt act as if there are no repucussions for our actions but we should show that we're not just out there beating it up as well. just the way I have always felt on the subject. BY THE WAY TREE HUGGER'S SUCK, GO SAVE THE WHALE'S!:flipoff: