track bar....on a leaf spring yota??

[nevada]

anyone with crossover steering running a track bar, on a leaf sprung toy?

ive got some pretty good body roll, just from the steering, ever since i did the crossover.

my shackles are...questionable, and it might be a bit better when i change them. but even before, with the stock shackles, there was quite abit of movement.

i had a track bar before..something i quickly threw together. i wasnt really happy with it, so i pulled it off, and have been running without since.

thinking of trying to build a good one, and was looking for ideas/suggestions.

85 toy, on 5" skyjacker, with sky manu hi-steer/crossover.

thanks
nevada

 

[NotMatt]

Here's my take... it's going to limit your travel quite a bit. Personally, I wouldn't do it. You should not need a track bar at all on a well-designed leaf spring suspension with good steering.

You say "body roll", but do you really mean that there is a lot of slop in the steering before it actually starts turning? If this is the case, let's see some pictures of your shackles, and you should check out all of your leaf bushings too.

I ran SOA with high-steer on stock YJ leafs with worn out bushings, no track bar, no steering stabilizer, no sway bar, and never thought twice about it. If your shackles are tight, aren't humongous and your steering angles are good, you shouldn't have issues with side to side movement of the leafs. A track bar would certainly tighten up your steering a bit, but even without it you should not have issues that make you feel the rig would be unsafe to drive, unless something is really worn out or questionable.

 

[nevada]

Here's my take... it's going to limit your travel quite a bit. Personally, I wouldn't do it. You should not need a track bar at all on a well-designed leaf spring suspension with good steering.

You say "body roll", but do you really mean that there is a lot of slop in the steering before it actually starts turning? If this is the case, let's see some pictures of your shackles, and you should check out all of your leaf bushings too.

I ran SOA with high-steer on stock YJ leafs with worn out bushings, no track bar, no steering stabilizer, no sway bar, and never thought twice about it. If your shackles are tight, aren't humongous and your steering angles are good, you shouldn't have issues with side to side movement of the leafs. A track bar would certainly tighten up your steering a bit, but even without it you should not have issues that make you feel the rig would be unsafe to drive, unless something is really worn out or questionable.

that was my thought too. that i shouldnt need it, and i know it will hinder the travel. thats part of the reason i took it off before.

by body roll, i mean, if parked, and i turn the wheel, the cab will tilt to one side or the other, instead of JUST the tires turning.

i do need to change out the shackle, theyre not extra long, just sloppy. BUT, it was pretty much the same way before, when i had the stock shackles.

stock YJ leafs are pretty flat, and i would imagine less prone to "twist" than the arched springs.

 

[Darby1]

I'm thinking your springs must be really soft.

 

[nevada]

I'm thinking your springs must be really soft.

they are. they flex pretty good. i need to throw in some bumpstops...ive neg arched them several times

 

[Darby1]

My springs up front are a little stiff and it rides nice out on the trail, no body roll. I run softer springs in the back but carefully built my packs so (several progressively smaller springs) I don't get axle wrap too bad or bend a spring. Maybe you could add a spring up front to stiffen it up a little? I built my spring packs using a combination of stock springs and 5" all pro's. Stock springs alone would bend and sit too low and the 5" springs alone sat too high. Hope that helps

 

[NotMatt]

that was my thought too. that i shouldnt need it, and i know it will hinder the travel. thats part of the reason i took it off before.

by body roll, i mean, if parked, and i turn the wheel, the cab will tilt to one side or the other, instead of JUST the tires turning.

i do need to change out the shackle, theyre not extra long, just sloppy. BUT, it was pretty much the same way before, when i had the stock shackles.

stock YJ leafs are pretty flat, and i would imagine less prone to "twist" than the arched springs.

Even with 1.5" reverse eyed rubicon express springs, which have a pretty good arch to them, I never had a problem... however, I DO know the effect that you're talking about. Make sure the shackles are nice and tight. You might even consider adding a brace between the two sides of the shackle for a little extra strength/resistance to slop. Check your front spring mount bushings too.

Have you had someone turn the wheel while you watch to see where exactly the movement is?

 

[Bunk1]

they are. they flex pretty good. i need to throw in some bumpstops...ive neg arched them several times

Start pricing some GOOD front springs. I had the same springs, They worked very well.....for 6 months. Then they all(front and rear) neg arched and 1 broke(rear) while running the shoestring.

 

[nevada]

Even with 1.5" reverse eyed rubicon express springs, which have a pretty good arch to them, I never had a problem... however, I DO know the effect that you're talking about. Make sure the shackles are nice and tight. You might even consider adding a brace between the two sides of the shackle for a little extra strength/resistance to slop. Check your front spring mount bushings too.

Have you had someone turn the wheel while you watch to see where exactly the movement is?

yeh, ive got to swap the shackles. when i do that, i'll see about bracing them somehow. and throw in some new bushings.

i was thinking the angle of the steering was too steep, and pushing down, aswell as to the side. but i just double checked, and its pretty damn straight. it must just be the shitty shackles.

Start pricing some GOOD front springs. I had the same springs, They worked very well.....for 6 months. Then they all(front and rear) neg arched and 1 broke(rear) while running the shoestring.

ive been running them for....probably 10 yrs. they still have good arch, altho theyve been flexed out pretty hard on occasion.

what would you consider GOOD springs?
ive been looking at the trail gear stuff.
but ive got a few other things id like to buy before i do that.

i built this truck back when i really couldnt afford to do anything.
so i made do with what i had. and now, im trying to do it RIGHT.

so many things that need attention. this is gonna take awhile.:booo:

thanks guys

 

[PUO-BANNED]

Stock toys use the push-pull steering and have the "dog bone" in there to keep the axle from moving fore and aft as you steer. look at any lifted chev that is still using the stock style steering and the body rolls as you steer.

Now you have cross over and it is trying to push the axle side to side instead of front to back. Add to that the fact you are running a lift spring and putting the COG higher can exaggerate the body roll. look at some of the Leaf sprung super duty fords. they use a watts link to keep the axle centered.

If everything is up to snuff I wouldn't worry. just adjust your driving style :awesomework:

 

[dove'd85]

i skimmed most of the thread and i can tell you from first hand experience that trac bars set up right on leaf sprung rigs do not limit travel what so ever and not only do they stop axle wrap i think they help with body roll, i have yet to put one in the front but i am working on it, leaf springs have some flex side to side and deffanitly don't help the body roll

 

[dove'd85]

yeh, ive got to swap the shackles. when i do that, i'll see about bracing them somehow. and throw in some new bushings.

i was thinking the angle of the steering was too steep, and pushing down, aswell as to the side. but i just double checked, and its pretty damn straight. it must just be the shitty shackles.



ive been running them for....probably 10 yrs. they still have good arch, altho theyve been flexed out pretty hard on occasion.

what would you consider GOOD springs?
ive been looking at the trail gear stuff.
but ive got a few other things id like to buy before i do that.

i have run three different sets of trail gear springs on two differant rigs and i had to warrenty two sets because the springs wore out under warrenty, they flex nice one they are broken in,(drivin for a couple days on the street with no shocks). but i don't think the quality is there... you get what you pay for

 

[crapyota]

james didnt you also pull leafs out of the spring packs? i know at first all springs are stiff, leave them alone and they will break in,and last longer.

 

[dove'd85]

james didnt you also pull leafs out of the spring packs? i know at first all springs are stiff, leave them alone and they will break in,and last longer.

first set i pulled two leafs out of and they didn't last long, second set i pulled one leaf out as instructed by chris g, and they didn't last much longer, they set i am currently running i have not taken out any leafs and i have had them for almost a year and my rears are starting to look pretty shitty,

not that i don't expect it, the leaf springs have seen plenty of abuse, wish i could afford links and coil overs

 

[nevada]

ok, so today, i fixed the shackles. well, i did the best i could do, with what i had to work with. it seems to be better, alot better actually. there still a bit of body roll, but its slight.

the frame side of the shackle has rubber bushings, and the spring side has poly. its flexing alot on the rubber. but..in order to swap these shackles...its gonna take some major reconstruction(the things we do when were broke ). so, i'll use it as is for now.