Why non-motorized wins and we get nothing. Hint: it ain't their fault.

[Travis1]

"What has the wheeling community done wrong?

First, agreeing with the government to let them drive the planing process. Most of the mtn bike projects are funded, spearheaded, and managed by the user groups. They're not letting the government take over planning of their park. We failed here by putting the onus on DNR to develop a recreation plan. The ORV community should have inked a stewardship agreement with DNR instead of asking DNR to manage the area like WV."


DING-DING-DING!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

I tried telling the ORV community, what has to be damn near a decade ago, that they needed to get together and manage Reiter like an ORV park before the government stepped in and did it. Nobody liked that idea, it meant not treating the area like a playground and doing whatever the hell you wanted. (I'm not just referring to 4x4 users.)

The other problem is, there was no stewardship agreement back then to ink the the DNR that could have involved motorized recreation as it wasn't an ORV park. The management that needed to happen, needed to happen within the user communities. Perhaps the OHV community would have had a little more leverage with the DNR when Reiter's day came. Heck, if the area was used responsibly, perhaps that day wouldn't have come.

The problem Reiter had was it's users, plain and simple. Those users have no dispersed in to other areas, I get to hear from LEO in other districts every now and then about how land abuse ramped up after Reiter shut down.

If Reiter opens back up, that's going to be the same problem and suddenly those supporting the area will find themselves in the position of having to educate and likely report their friends.

 

[Binder]

I tried telling the ORV community, what has to be damn near a decade ago, that they needed to get together and manage Reiter like an ORV park before the government stepped in and did it.

When was the last time you were even there?....This was not an option as there were no rules or regulations to make anyone do anything...As for the users doing it wrong by letting the DNR manage things that's just ****ing stupid! What makes anyone think we have any right to step in or tell the DNR anything? The DNR will manage their own land and we have no say in this. We didn't have a say then and we don't have a say now.

 

[Travis1]

When was the last time you were even there?....This was not an option as there were no rules or regulations to make anyone do anything...As for the users doing it wrong by letting the DNR manage things that's just ****ing stupid! What makes anyone think we have any right to step in or tell the DNR anything? The DNR will manage their own land and we have no say in this. We didn't have a say then and we don't have a say now.

I was out there quite a bit back when I started pointing that out. I could see that it was NEVER going to last. I ended up moving away about the time the **** hit the fan there, I was there long enough to catch some of the splatter.

The rules and regulations have always been there, just not consistently enforced. So, people did as they pleased, and no amount of peer pressure was changing that.

Of course the DNR is in charge of the land. But I will tell you this much, depending on your land manager that showed up. If there was an existing body managing a renegade trail system close enough to DNR spec. Reiter probably wouldn't have closed, the DNR would have just taken over.

If you have a GOOD working relationship with the government body managing the land you are using. You can actually have a good bit of input in to how it is managed. You can't tell them they have to do something, but you can often help send things the direction you'd like to see them go. You just have to know how to do it.

 

[pokey]

I was out there quite a bit back when I started pointing that out. I could see that it was NEVER going to last. I ended up moving away about the time the **** hit the fan there, I was there long enough to catch some of the splatter.

The rules and regulations have always been there, just not consistently enforced. So, people did as they pleased, and no amount of peer pressure was changing that.

Of course the DNR is in charge of the land. But I will tell you this much, depending on your land manager that showed up. If there was an existing body managing a renegade trail system close enough to DNR spec. Reiter probably wouldn't have closed, the DNR would have just taken over.

If you have a GOOD working relationship with the government body managing the land you are using. You can actually have a good bit of input in to how it is managed. You can't tell them they have to do something, but you can often help send things the direction you'd like to see them go. You just have to know how to do it.[/QUOTE]

Pure gold :awesomework:

 

[Binder]

I was out there quite a bit back when I started pointing that out. .................................. But I will tell you this much, depending on your land manager that showed up. If there was an existing body managing a renegade trail system close enough to DNR spec. Reiter probably wouldn't have closed, the DNR would have just taken over.

OK I call bullshit. If you were there as much as you claim you would know that it wasn't possible to have trails to DNR specs. There was and still is too much water there and it's still being a major issue today.

If you have a GOOD working relationship with the government body managing the land you are using. You can actually have a good bit of input in to how it is managed. You can't tell them they have to do something, but you can often help send things the direction you'd like to see them go. You just have to know how to do it.

If you have a good relationship you may be lucky enough to have a fair amount of input. There's no amount of input that was going to convince the DNR that we would handle it and to leave the trails open.
Anyone who spent enough time there and has been involved with the process to date knows this.
Internet quarterbacks do nothing more than stir **** and cause more problems.

 

[dirtygoat]

Internet quarterbacks do nothing more than stir **** and cause more problems.

Yep...

 

[Travis1]

OK I call bullshit. If you were there as much as you claim you would know that it wasn't possible to have trails to DNR specs. There was and still is too much water there and it's still being a major issue today.

If you have a good relationship you may be lucky enough to have a fair amount of input. There's no amount of input that was going to convince the DNR that we would handle it and to leave the trails open.
Anyone who spent enough time there and has been involved with the process to date knows this.
Internet quarterbacks do nothing more than stir **** and cause more problems.

Water isn't really the issue, where the water is going is. The original trails, save for a couple water crossings, didn't have major issues that I can recall. Most of it was contained and not dumping silt in to streams. Again, this depends a LOT on what the land manager calls a problem.

Why would the DNR take input on how to handle an ORV area from ORV users that had done a fine job proving that when left alone, can't manage an ORV area. That trust has to be built, or that trust has to come from organizations the DNR is USED to dealing with. But, this also goes back to the land manager and politics of the area.

Whatever... with your quarterback comment, it's clear nothing has changed with those "supporting" Reiter have made it clear outside experienced input or even information is not desired.

 

[Horus]

Yep...

Yep yep. My favorite thing about these threads is its the same four or five dudes just having it out every time. Around and around we go.

 

[Horus]

And FWIW I only read the OP and the first two replies in this thread. Experience has taught me that to read any further in these types of threads is pointless and fruitless.

I did read Jay-Luke's comment because it was quoted at the top of page 2. Another lessen hewn from experience is that people I actually wheel with (doers, not just talkers) often have relevant things to say.

The rest of these threads concerning what are we going to close, what vehicles/ tires we should limit, who will pay for tree and dirt damage, etc have all left a bad taste in mine as well as the mouths of those I share the trails with. All talk, no work parties or WOHVA rallies.

Armchair Quarterback is the perfect term for them. I tell wheelers I meet to avoid the internet forums anymore. Keep wheelin pure, don't register. Its just a world of negatively and slander with a decent for sale section.

 

[nowires]

Yep yep. My favorite thing about these threads is its the same four or five dudes just having it out every time. Around and around we go.

:fawkdancesmiley:
I am not in this thread :corn::hi:

Hows it going down south, Is it sunny

Dinners cooking and it smells like chicken


Edit
Yep I was right....... chicken Pitas for dinner:awesomework:

 

[Binder]

Water isn't really the issue, where the water is going is.

Water was and still is the second single biggest issue at Reiter right behind money. Goes to show how out of touch on this you are.:awesomework:

 

[crash2]

Yep yep. My favorite thing about these threads is its the same four or five dudes just having it out every time. Around and around we go.

Problem is emotions come out far before level headed thinking...

 

[crash2]

Water was and still is the second single biggest issue at Reiter right behind money. Goes to show how out of touch on this you are.:awesomework:

Heck there have been issues with just plain water holes--water doesn't have to go anyplace to be an issue.

 

[Binder]

Heck there have been issues with just plain water holes--water doesn't have to go anyplace to be an issue.

The required storm water plan for Reiter could potentially delay the project for nearly a year. The cost of the plan, TBD could put a huge burdon on things too.

 

[Travis1]

Water was and still is the second single biggest issue at Reiter right behind money. Goes to show how out of touch on this you are.:awesomework:

Well continue living in your ignorance then.

1) Reiter is not likely to open again to 4x4 users.
2) IF it does re-open for 4x4 users, it won't stay open long.

I'll just come back later and give you the "I told you so", I'll give up trying to tell you guys that you are on the wrong path. You obviously aren't interested in what is really going to happen.

 

[Binder]

Well continue living in your ignorance then.

1) Reiter is not likely to open again to 4x4 users.
2) IF it does re-open for 4x4 users, it won't stay open long.

I'll just come back later and give you the "I told you so", I'll give up trying to tell you guys that you are on the wrong path. You obviously aren't interested in what is really going to happen.

Speaking of ignorance WTF are you talking about? Whether Reiter opens again or not doesn't change the fact that the water is the biggest issue on the ground out there....And no I'm not interested in what you think....."on the wrong path". You're a idiot!