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Why non-motorized wins and we get nothing. Hint: it ain't their fault.

japerry

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Mar 17, 2007
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Bellingham
I just came back from the Galbraith Meeting, and I'll tell ya--these guys have their **** together. Some key components:
* A well organized and synchronized group. Everyone is in agreement that Galbraith needs to be saved and used for recreation. No one is advocating taking out the dangerous trails, and in fact they joked about how they give economic stimulus to St. Joseph's hospital (No joke, this was said in the council meeting!)

* A good working relationship with the county council, mayors office, city council, and land owner.

* Find funding sources that all them to save their land. And better yet, bring conservation groups in to fund the park so it will effectively ban any motorized development there.

* People. The chambers was filled with as many people as we saw at the big Reiter meeting. They're coming in droves and not giving up

* Good core group. A group of 5 to 10 people are tirelessly working on making sure Galbraith stays in public trust, and mtn biking first.

What has the wheeling community done wrong?

First, agreeing with the government to let them drive the planing process. Most of the mtn bike projects are funded, spearheaded, and managed by the user groups. They're not letting the government take over planning of their park. We failed here by putting the onus on DNR to develop a recreation plan. The ORV community should have inked a stewardship agreement with DNR instead of asking DNR to manage the area like WV.

Secondly, not figuring out what the goals are for the community as a whole. no one in the mtn bike community thinks waiting 5 years until they can ride is acceptable. Its amazing that the 'guys' as we all refer to them think that riding out the Reiter process is acceptable. Its not. And we see that in the many other places people use illegally.

Lastly, not taking risks. Galbraith started as something illegal. Other mtn bike areas started as illegal. Groups stuck their necks out to do what they wanted, for the greater good of their sport. Sure enough, they got what they wanted, an agreement with the land owner to recreate on their lands without fear of prosecution. We can do the same.

So what is the point of all this?
a) Reiter is a lost cause, no need to resurrect coulda, shoulda, woulda. DNR manages it now, and there is nothing we can do about it. No need to 'take it back' or elsewise. Ship sailed, moving on.

b) the community needs to organize around an area and claim it.... the PNW, WOW, and other groups need to look at a dispersed wheeling spot and start building trails that are sustainable. Then they need to look into achieving critical mass and then use this momentum to get a stewardship agreement in place with the landowner. This could be DNR or private timber. but you have to be willing to stick your neck out first and take risks to get such an agreement.

c) stop by going off-trail. The mtn biking builders are very protective of their trails and land. They don't allow people to build rouge trails w/o internal approval. They don't let people ride wherever they want. We need to do the same. If we're going to be 'dispersed' wheeling, we should be doing it in some organized fashion. If we don't, it will turn into another reiter, you'll never get a stewardship agreement, and we all loose.

d) Put some time and effort into it. Be proud to be a builder. The mtn bikers are proud to be builders, they said that in the county council meeting. They proudly admitted they build trails, even though it is illegal!

So my question to everyone is, are you ready to get good wheeling back, now? Are you willing to stick your neck out for the greater good? There is a way to do it, but only united can we succeed.
 
So my question to everyone is, are you ready to get good wheeling back, now? Are you willing to stick your neck out for the greater good? There is a way to do it, but only united can we succeed.


Nice read.

The problem with this quote jacob is the fact that the ones who are the problem are too self centered to even think of this.

But we can certainly learn from the mnt bike guys.
 
Nice read.

The problem with this quote jacob is the fact that the ones who are the problem are too self centered to even think of this.

But we can certainly learn from the mnt bike guys.
Agreed...and yup, pretty much what I said when Jakob and I talked this evening...The biggest problem with devising a gameplan is getting the 1%ers on board with something that would require constraint on their part to not just blindly blaze trail, rather focus that energy into helping 'build' something sustainable...too impatient to see the bigger picture...
 
It's easy to say the bikers are doing it right by sticking their necks out.....I don't buy it that we could easily do the same. Think about it! A guy riding a bike around in the woods is very mobile and hard to pin down versus a 4wd vehicle. Get your bike inpounded and your out what, a few hundred bucks? Yes I know some bikes are expensive but if you're "sticking your neck out" you leave the big $ bike at home. I for one am not in a hurry to loose my tow rig, trailer and buggy to the tune of nearly 6 digits.
And getting greenies "on your side" to keep out ORV's.:haha::haha::haha::haha: This one will backfire on them and hard!
 
You completely ignore politics in your post.

internal combustion engine, big knobby tires = evil
mountain bike, hiking, etc. = green

Why do they have so much leverage? It's the whole "green" movement and what they do aligns with it much more than what we do. That is why the mtn bikers can do what they do.

I'm not defeatest, I'm just stating reality.
 
It's easy to say the bikers are doing it right by sticking their necks out.....I don't buy it that we could easily do the same. Think about it! A guy riding a bike around in the woods is very mobile and hard to pin down versus a 4wd vehicle. Get your bike inpounded and your out what, a few hundred bucks? Yes I know some bikes are expensive but if you're "sticking your neck out" you leave the big $ bike at home. I for one am not in a hurry to loose my tow rig, trailer and buggy to the tune of nearly 6 digits.
And getting greenies "on your side" to keep out ORV's.:haha::haha::haha::haha: This one will backfire on them and hard!
There is this...:awesomework: ALOT more at stake $$-wise...:yikes:
You completely ignore politics in your post.

internal combustion engine, big knobby tires = evil
mountain bike, hiking, etc. = green

Why do they have so much leverage? It's the whole "green" movement and what they do aligns with it much more than what we do. That is why the mtn bikers can do what they do.

I'm not defeatest, I'm just stating reality.
This is also something to think about...:awesomework:
 
It was a dream to work as a group and work towards having a paid staff to get what we want, lobby for money and ect.

The first step is STOP BASHING

Second step, ask questions and then ask more of the people that have made it their job. Then if you see something that you don't agree on, then show the trail of how you came up with your decision for discussion can happen

Every group, organization has what they think is important, but there is common ground that we can all work on.
 
In a Red state, maybe, in a Blue state, never :D

The politics of this state dictate green, and like was stated previously, wheeling is not green, nor is it politically correct. :booo:
 
"What has the wheeling community done wrong?

First, agreeing with the government to let them drive the planing process. Most of the mtn bike projects are funded, spearheaded, and managed by the user groups. They're not letting the government take over planning of their park. We failed here by putting the onus on DNR to develop a recreation plan. The ORV community should have inked a stewardship agreement with DNR instead of asking DNR to manage the area like WV."


DING-DING-DING!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!!
 
Politics has come up as a reason, but I actually think the mtn bikers have an uphill battle, even with the support of local government. Most people DON'T support spending 10 million dollars when schools, hospitals, and government agencies are all cutting. Recreation is still outnumbered politically.

The mtn bike group is fairly large around here, and probably larger than the ORV community. However, I don't believe that the government is against us having an area for ORV use. The Whatcom County Council is majority conservative. But even further, Mann and Brenner (both liberal) also support some sort of organized fashion for motorized access. They both see the problems that have come up by not having a legal place to recreate.

Everyone needs to stop blaming our government and city for being too 'green'.

Those who are hardcore wheelers who hate the process need to suck it up and get involved
 
By the way.. tell me why this cannot be adapted to motorized use?

http://www.whimpsmtb.org/attachment...eation Use Agreement- Final 050610 (2)[1].pdf

Can and has in the past. Pretty sure Skagit Motorcycle club had something similar setup with Crown Pacific allowing them to ride and have club functions at Camp 18, Finny Crk, and Shannon Lake roads.

There was another deal trying to open in Granite Falls that was an Motorcycle track last year that got shut down. I haven't heard anything on this lately, but am half interested in it. I heard it got shut down because of marbled warbler stuff (Lider.) but maybe somebuddy has some more recent info (Neil?)

Also, they tried converting the old Crown Pacific log transfer site at Hamilton (2005 I think?) into an offroad mecca, consiting of a MX track, quad track, short course race track, flat track, and various other offroad activities, but that got shut down by locals saying that they noise disturbance would effect there quality of life.
 
It could but what does that have to do with anything?

The two major issues that have been levvyed by DNR and private land owners is Liability and resource abuse.

By entering into a stewardship agreement with a landowner, their liability would be effectively nothing.

By entering into a stewardship agreement with a landowner, we can build trails to some standard (that we design, not the enviros) and self-enforce designated trails by having signage and work parties to maintain the trails.

When left like Reiter or NF (unmanaged use) people tend to not care as much. If we have an agreement, it puts the responsibility in our hands to keep up our side of the bargin. I think the destructive nature of some wheelers can be mitigated if we get them involved with the preservation and building of the area.
 
The two major issues that have been levvyed by DNR and private land owners is Liability and resource abuse.

By entering into a stewardship agreement with a landowner, their liability would be effectively nothing.

By entering into a stewardship agreement with a landowner, we can build trails to some standard (that we design, not the enviros) and self-enforce designated trails by having signage and work parties to maintain the trails.

When left like Reiter or NF (unmanaged use) people tend to not care as much. If we have an agreement, it puts the responsibility in our hands to keep up our side of the bargin. I think the destructive nature of some wheelers can be mitigated if we get them involved with the preservation and building of the area.

What about permits and such?

I would think you would still have a BUNCH of hoops to jump thru.
 
I actually really agree there Jakob

"I think the destructive nature of some wheelers can be mitigated if we get them involved with the preservation and building of the area. "

It is hard to understand destructive until you have had to repair destruction.

If we would all be willing to band together pay into a local group. Much like NRA, or what not. Get together with Lawyers, and get them on a full time staff (preferable wheelers themselves), get lobbyists in Olympia, get together a decent monthly magazine, and pay dues, maybe even lease and maintain a few private areas around the state.

Areas that wound only be open to our group or on temporary passes, completely separate from Government control. Private all the way around. If 3/4 of the wheelers in Wa joined in at a reasonable rate this would be possible. If you had a hundred, or two, dollar buy in and 40 or so a year. It sounds like alot but if it Guaranteed open lands, it would be totally worth it.

I personally would like to see more intermediate trails that go places, like Lakes (stocked even), or old mines, or even to little back towns. These could even bring tourism if done properly. And if there was that kind of commitment, we would all be wheeling these areas.
 
What about permits and such?

I would think you would still have a BUNCH of hoops to jump thru.

Permits? You're still thinking old school. Hint: You don't need permits. :awesomework:

We're talking about dispersed wheeling under a stewardship agreement, not a full blown ORV park. The Mtn Bikers also need to have permits if they went that route. Thats why you aren't seeing them rallying the government to manage the park.
 
The two major issues that have been levvyed by DNR and private land owners is Liability and resource abuse.

By entering into a stewardship agreement with a landowner, their liability would be effectively nothing.

By entering into a stewardship agreement with a landowner, we can build trails to some standard (that we design, not the enviros) and self-enforce designated trails by having signage and work parties to maintain the trails.

When left like Reiter or NF (unmanaged use) people tend to not care as much. If we have an agreement, it puts the responsibility in our hands to keep up our side of the bargin. I think the destructive nature of some wheelers can be mitigated if we get them involved with the preservation and building of the area.

DING DING DING....We have a winner.

I like the way you think.
 
Jacob873796]DING DING DING....We have a winner.

I like the way you think.

i agree and i think alot of people do. the question is how do you get this mamoth ball rolling out of the planning stage to the trail building stage?
im ready for a work party some where. lets go!:whip:
 
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