A little Boeing debate

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NotSoPC said:
how so? They started with few people knowing what they were doing on a plane that no one had built before in a place they had never built planes before. Everett has been building planes for decades and the roll out plane that was such a big deal was far from done. Hell the doors were fake and just painted. With the all the issues we had here I see SC as doing well for starting with less and doing about the same as we did.
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The parts that came from our suppliers didn't even come close to matching up. That's a crap comparison to try and make.
 
Lucky Jeff said:
The parts that came from our suppliers didn't even come close to matching up. That's a crap comparison to try and make.
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Both got the same parts. Both used the same vendors. All I am sayin is this is not only area that can build planes like so many seem to think. Boeing could do all of this in another state. The issue would be fulfilling orders while moving. A new plane would fix that issue.
 
NotSoPC said:
Both got the same parts. Both used the same vendors. All I am sayin is this is not only area that can build planes like so many seem to think. Boeing could do all of this in another state. The issue would be fulfilling orders while moving. A new plane would fix that issue.
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Do you have any idea about the first few planes built? I didn't realize SC started building 787's the same time we did....
 
South Carolina was supposed to be making 3 planes per month by years end.... they are at 1.5 planes per month. I have never heard anyone say that planes can't be built some place else, its more about how efficient that would be (see above) The Seattle area has a 100 years of experience building air craft, there is a lot of knowledge here that other states don't have, could other states gain the knowledge, sure.... but how long would it take and at what cost..

be informed when you vote....
 
The suppliers were not the only issue, either. Everything with the 87 had to be "new." Leave behind the old ways and build the plane how a bean counter would. Forget the old school mechanics that actually knew how to use their hands to build something. They were more interested in a "diverse" work force that they thought would make them look better in today's world and way of thinking. But in the end performance and money still wins the customers orders. There was a huge influx of new people to the 87 with a few legacy guys thrown in the mix. And it did hurt. But SC had ALL new people and it hurt them even worse. If SC had any of the first 20+ planes, they would still be working on just one of them.
 
Don't forget that the reason Boeing is even in SC is because one of the primary 787 suppliers, Vought Industries, was screwing up so badly that Boeing had to buy the plant and run it themselves to un#*^% it. A relative of mine did some QA consulting for Vought and couldn't believe some of the stuff going on and how unqualified the work force was. The same people that are still there. They'll get it sorted out and running right eventually. It's only been what, 5 years now?

To say that the 787 problems have anything to do with the experienced shop workers in Everett is either woefully ignorant or a flat out lie. Take your choice, but neither is a particularly good look.
 
How long ago was it that they started moving people over to the 787 from other lines trying to get some good people? I remember being asked about it when I was a rework mechanic in Renton. I was dealing with a lot of composite stuff and had most of the certs due to working on green lights. I was asked by my manager and an HR rep if I would be willing to take a spot on the 787. I passed.

I had a guy come onto my crew a while back who was from the 787 and also a retired A&P mechanic for Delta. He said the biggest issue in SC was the on site contractors who had it in their heads that they could whatever they wanted. One thing I found funny was that some people were quitting cause the pay was messing up their welfare checks and those were more important to them.
 
I hope it doesn't screw you guys up but it seems that the biggest issue is in worker conflict. Without all being on the same page it is tragedy waiting to happen.
 
wkndtoy said:
Be prepared to be pissed, My money is on long beach...just a gut feeling
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The logistics are all too perfect for this to NOT happen.

Skilled workforce building large aircraft/tooling/assemblies etc.
Skilled support industries (just like our region) with the ability to support.
Existing facilities more than able to accomodate the program.
C-17 program tapped to pull out of Long Beach in 2016.
Boeing machinist's current contract up in 2016.


The day that Boeing moved the headquarters out of town...was the first shot across the bow.
 
wkndtoy said:
Be prepared to be pissed, My money is on long beach...just a gut feeling
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Yup, I think this was Boeings way of asking us to work with them for once so that it would be financially smart to keep Boeing in the NW. And the union told em to F off. No consequence for those that have been at the company a while. But screws the rest of us.
 
Yup, this shows the percentage that feel entitlement. I hope that it doesn't ruin it for everybody but I have a feeling that the moving vans are on their way already.....
 
If they would have offered us a real contract extension, most of us would have voted yes, and what I mean by that is, an extension of the current contract, not the crap they offered us and said accept this or else.. The Dubai air show is on the 17th do you really think they are going to go there and tell there buyers, buy our new 777X but we don't know where we are going to build it...
 
I B RACIN said:
If they would have offered us a real contract extension, most of us would have voted yes, and what I mean by that is, an extension of the current contract, not the crap they offered us and said accept this or else.. The Dubai air show is on the 17th do you really think they are going to go there and tell there buyers, buy our new 777X but we don't know where we are going to build it...
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It doesn't matter where it is built as long as it meets all their specs & standards.
 
I was a Union Cement finisher for years....
That's hard work.
You wanna talk about fair?
Hows about straight up not being able to do what your good at?
Hows about appreciating HAVING a job?
HOWS ABout, thinking of someone else than yourself?
As someone most of you know said once.
"seems to me like their just a bunch of vaginalistic ***** ass ****tards"
Pretty sure that's right :) lol

Some folks need to pull their dicks out of their own mouths. Bunch of folks that forget where they came from if ya ask me.
cheers :fawkdancesmiley:
 
monstaru said:
I was a Union Cement finisher for years....
That's hard work.
You wanna talk about fair?
Hows about straight up not being able to do what your good at?
Hows about appreciating HAVING a job?
HOWS ABout, thinking of someone else than yourself?
As someone most of you know said once.
"seems to me like their just a bunch of vaginalistic ***** ass ****tards"
Pretty sure that's right :) lol

Some folks need to pull their dicks out of their own mouths. Bunch of folks that forget where they came from if ya ask me.
cheers :fawkdancesmiley:
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It's Obama syndrome.....ENTITLEMENT.
 
I B RACIN said:
If they would have offered us a real contract extension, most of us would have voted yes, and what I mean by that is, an extension of the current contract, not the crap they offered us and said accept this or else.. The Dubai air show is on the 17th do you really think they are going to go there and tell there buyers, buy our new 777X but we don't know where we are going to build it...
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For one, it wasn't crap. And if you're wrong, then what?
 
DHR Darren said:
It's Obama syndrome.....ENTITLEMENT.
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It was before him even lol
Its old school cats that used to be and / or usually are, like us. I don't fukking get it....
Not everyone else's fault that you didn'a prepare for the end of days! lol

Sucks, but **** man........:flipoff:
 
Lucky Jeff said:
For one, it wasn't crap. And if you're wrong, then what?
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Some of it I was ok with, but the bad out weighed the good, don't forget we have what we have now because of the union membership before us... And yes I understand that we need to be flexible as the times change but this was not that time. What if I'm wrong, I really can't worry about things I have no control over, if Boeing wants to move they will and I have no say about it.. It would be bad for the state as a whole and I would hate to see that happen. They are making record profits so why would they want to do that?

Jim Mcnerny hates unions and his time is coming to an end, so maybe the new CEO will have a better attitude when it comes to working with the union.
I think the contract was more about that, then anything else..
 
They're making record profits because of planning and running a business well. Not because someone learned how to put a rivet in a hole. If they want to keep the company strong, they have to adapt to the direction of the market. People that are up in arms because we are doing well now but could care less about the future will get a rude awakening soon enough.
 
I B RACIN said:
The Dubai air show is on the 17th do you really think they are going to go there and tell there buyers, buy our new 777X but we don't know where we are going to build it...
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Yes.

Yes they will.

And they will sell planes.

With or without you and the State of Washington.
 
Not Jobless said:
Yes.

Yes they will.

And they will sell planes.

With or without you and the State of Washington.
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Correct.
The fact that they have four other facilities they could move to says that the union doesn't call the shots.
Those days are over and the guys that think you never have to take a step backwards in life at times are sadly mistaken and just may have cost the rest of the Washington state Boeing employees their careers. :looser:
 
Again--look at the automotive unions and with there numbers---**** went down hill...
 
In this day of age I see unions a thing of the past because of all the state laws and every company finding a cheaper way to make profit. Unions were good when every thing was made in America and every one bought American when there wasn't many other options to save $.
 

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