A little Boeing debate

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Attitudes have changed in my area. Now the only no votes seem to be the idiots that think they are going to keep their pension.
 
NotSoPC said:
If the no vote means Boeing leaves WA don't you think that would be straight up stupid? I mean, I would rather have a job and a 401K in place of a pension then not have a job at all. Maybe I am alone on that one. Oh, and lets not forget all the people in the area that don't work for Boeing who would loose their jobs if Boeing left. Yup, I guess its better to not take a single cut. I mean look how well it worked for the people at Hostess.
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I don't see why you even care, you said your leaving Boeing...

all the people who don't like the union are free to do the same. A company the size of Boeing would just flat run over there workers, if it was not for our union... and no its not ideal but its better than none!
 
I B RACIN said:
I don't see why you even care, you said your leaving Boeing...

all the people who don't like the union are free to do the same. A company the size of Boeing would just flat run over there workers, if it was not for our union... and no its not ideal but its better than none!
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If they run over their workers and the workers stay there the problem isn't the company. If you stay at a job with a company that keeps sticking it in your ass then you deserve to walk funny.
 
Binder said:
No you don't cut your own throat. Why would you do that when you have a much better contract currently in place?.... Boing is going to build these planes somewhere. You would be much better off packing up all of your **** and moving to SC for instance if that's where they go, where the cost of living is much lower. The other people who depend on Boeing are not your problem.
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True because the local market that boeing payroll supports or Ed's gas station that you support when you go wheeling with boeing dollars do not need to stay open either. That's their problem that they will not have their revenue now..???
 
WHITE TRASH said:
If they run over their workers and the workers stay there the problem isn't the company. If you stay at a job with a company that keeps sticking it in your ass then you deserve to walk funny.
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Quoted for truth.

Just like the $15/hr minimum wage bull****. People have become acustomed to having things taken care of FOR them, instead of taking care of things for their self.

Like Binder mentioned...if/when those plane jobs leave, a smart man will follow the money and follow it to a better state. A state that has a much, much lower cost of living with lower state taxes...etc.

That is how the old "America" was...
 
mudmaster said:
The wages in those states are also much lower.....
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A friend of mine is from there. He is a carpenter.

He came out here during the "housing boom" to rake in the money.


He shortly left after realizing the pay was good here, but the bills were HIGH too.

He went back promptly. He said over there he could live BETTER on a walmart wage than he could live here for a journeyman carpenters pay.


He said its VERY cheap to live well back there.
 
I B RACIN said:
I don't see why you even care, you said your leaving Boeing...

all the people who don't like the union are free to do the same. A company the size of Boeing would just flat run over there workers, if it was not for our union... and no its not ideal but its better than none!
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And you think the union gives two ****s about the people? Really? I still have friends and family at Boeing who will work there until they retire. I myself am 3rd generation Boeing and none of the ones before have any respect left for the union. The IAM is a BS union that burns it members. Fools still rally the flag of this broken union. If the offer does some how make it to a vote then I bet it passes. People are seeing that it is better to have a job then a pension.
 
If you break down profit margin anywhere in America the cost of living is all relative to the wages paid. Just because I bought a house in florida with three bedrooms,two car garage and an in ground pool for 72K doesn't mean that I can here in Washington. Florida also is a right to work state and Washington isn't.
Bottom line is you will still spend XX% of your check to live no matter what state that is in.
 
DHR Darren said:
If you break down profit margin anywhere in America the cost of living is all relative to the wages paid. Just because I bought a house in florida with three bedrooms,two car garage and an in ground pool for 72K doesn't mean that I can here in Washington. Florida also is a right to work state and Washington isn't.
Bottom line is you will still spend XX% of your check to live no matter what state that is in.
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To a point you are correct. But in areas outside of western WA and southern CA you can afford to live in a nice house in close proximity to your employer. Not all people are happy to spend a couple hours minimum driving to and from work. Personally I've never had more than a 40 minute commute and i only had to do that twice a week but it still annoyed me to no end. :redneck:
 
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Harvester of Sorrow said:
Like Binder mentioned...if/when those plane jobs leave, a smart man will follow the money and follow it to a better state. A state that has a much, much lower cost of living with lower state taxes...etc.
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Ding ding ding! I don't work for Boeing but I am a Machinist. This thread has been cool to keep up with but the whole time this has been going on all I've been doing is quietly chanting "U...tah...U...tah...U...tah..." I know it is highly unlikely primarily because there is no convenient port access. Not sure I am ready to try going to the east coast, but definitely hoping if Boeing leaves they go somewhere in the mid/south west.

I can't stress enough how big of an impact Boeing leaving Washington will be. It is not just the actual employees of Boeing that will be out of work. The picture of manufacturing in Washington is WAAAAAY bigger than the measly 85,000 or whatever people who's jobs will evaporate should Boeing leave.

The plus side of Boeing leaving will be that in a couple years, say 2017-18ish, those making the new $15 per hour wage will be able to comfortably afford a nice house. :haha:
 
DHR Darren said:
If you break down profit margin anywhere in America the cost of living is all relative to the wages paid. Just because I bought a house in florida with three bedrooms,two car garage and an in ground pool for 72K doesn't mean that I can here in Washington. Florida also is a right to work state and Washington isn't.
Bottom line is you will still spend XX% of your check to live no matter what state that is in.
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You are wrong. Period. Especially when you are talking about a certain wage level and above.
 
Luckily this area is more diverse now than it was back in the late 70's so loss of jobs won't be as big of an impact (will still impact).
 
crash said:
Luckily this area is more diverse now than it was back in the late 70's so loss of jobs won't be as big of an impact (will still impact).
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But you have to remember that the Boeing jobs would not be the only ones. This area has a lot of venders that support Boeing and many of them would also lay off or just go under. Also the jobs that would be affected by the amount of people no longer spending money and the number of people flooding the job market. The impact would be large and would take a long ass time to recover from.
 
DHR Darren said:
True because the local market that boeing payroll supports or Ed's gas station that you support when you go wheeling with boeing dollars do not need to stay open either. That's their problem that they will not have their revenue now..???
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Correct. I think you're starting to get it!:awesomework:
 
Binder said:
Correct. I think you're starting to get it!:awesomework:
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I guess we no longer need to look out for our neighbors or help keep our communities prospering. Looks like the days of helping others to ensure the community circle of prosperity has been lost for sure.

People think public schools suffer now....??

Wait until they lose that tax base called Boeing and the employees.

Sad for sure.
 
DHR Darren said:
I guess we no longer need to look out for our neighbors or help keep our communities prospering. Looks like the days of helping others to ensure the community circle of prosperity has been lost for sure.

People think public schools suffer now....??

Wait until they lose that tax base called Boeing and the employees.

Sad for sure.
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How much tax base dollars do you think come from people who work for $9 an hour with no benefits?:eeek:
Boeing would love ya to work for that, then they might stay...:awesomework:
 
Binder said:
Correct. I think you're starting to get it!:awesomework:
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Werd. Economies based upon a limited employer base are sketchy at best and they always fail. When the aluminum plant closed in Goldendale the place all but shut down. Ever hear of detroit? I don't think it'll be on the scale of detroit but I can see it sucking for awhile as vendors scramble to find buyers for their goods.


Around here it won't be too bad when hanford finally shuts down but it will have an effect. So many people work there getting roughly double the standard wage for their field if they were outside of the unions and they spend every single penny of it plus some. Mortgaged up to their balls. When it shuts down many of us will get to play opportunist and swoop in for cheap real estate. CL will be a fun place to cruise for your next score for the schmuks trying to maintain their lifestyle. :redneck:
 
Horus said:
Ding ding ding! I don't work for Boeing but I am a Machinist. This thread has been cool to keep up with but the whole time this has been going on all I've been doing is quietly chanting "U...tah...U...tah...U...tah..." I know it is highly unlikely primarily because there is no convenient port access. Not sure I am ready to try going to the east coast, but definitely hoping if Boeing leaves they go somewhere in the mid/south west.

I can't stress enough how big of an impact Boeing leaving Washington will be. It is not just the actual employees of Boeing that will be out of work. The picture of manufacturing in Washington is WAAAAAY bigger than the measly 85,000 or whatever people who's jobs will evaporate should Boeing leave.

The plus side of Boeing leaving will be that in a couple years, say 2017-18ish, those making the new $15 per hour wage will be able to comfortably afford a nice house. :haha:
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If you want to go to Utah, there is work there now. Boeing has a 900,000 square foot building in West Jordan. They will be making the composite verticle stabilizers for the 787. Right now the machines are just starting to arrive at the plant and they will be hiring for the next year (non union of course).
 
DHR Darren said:
I guess we no longer need to look out for our neighbors or help keep our communities prospering. Looks like the days of helping others to ensure the community circle of prosperity has been lost for sure.
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This is something the government is supposed to do. All those governors in this and other states dreaming up huge tax incentives for Boeing are doing this.

How can any one person help keep out communities prospering? Or a group of people?
 
The machinists should have read up on the bakers that wouldn't negotiate with Hostess and now they have no place to work. I hope that Boeing doesn't move out of the area, it will hurt a lot of local business' but if they do, it will be the sole result of the machinists and their greed. Maybe I don't understand the entitlement mentality and maybe I never will, but you would think that they would be happy to have a great paying job, especially in this economy.
 
Jaydog said:
The machinists should have read up on the bakers that wouldn't negotiate with Hostess and now they have no place to work. I hope that Boeing doesn't move out of the area, it will hurt a lot of local business' but if they do, it will be the sole result of the machinists and their greed. Maybe I don't understand the entitlement mentality and maybe I never will, but you would think that they would be happy to have a great paying job, especially in this economy.
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Its the union mentality. They are not worth the pay they get and think they should have more. I can't stand it.

As of right now Boeing is saying the last offer is still on the table. However Tom W. wont bring it to a vote cause he thinks its not worth it. All while thousands of union members as well as other IAM presidents from around the US and the head prez are all saying he needs to let us vote on it. To be honest I think it will pass if voted on. People are not wanting to play chicken with their jobs. A 401K is not the end of the world like some think it is. With the progression going back to 6 years rather then 20-22 years it will pass.
 
NotSoPC said:
Its the union mentality. They are not worth the pay they get and think they should have more. I can't stand it.

As of right now Boeing is saying the last offer is still on the table. However Tom W. wont bring it to a vote cause he thinks its not worth it. All while thousands of union members as well as other IAM presidents from around the US and the head prez are all saying he needs to let us vote on it. To be honest I think it will pass if voted on. People are not wanting to play chicken with their jobs. A 401K is not the end of the world like some think it is. With the progression going back to 6 years rather then 20-22 years it will pass.
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So can't the union members force a vote? What's the point of the union if tje membership can't decide its own fate?
 
RusM said:
So can't the union members force a vote? What's the point of the union if tje membership can't decide its own fate?
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The members are wanting to force the vote. I think it can be done. Boeing has made it clear that if we want to vote then the offer still stands.
 
Jaydog said:
The machinists should have read up on the bakers that wouldn't negotiate with Hostess and now they have no place to work. I hope that Boeing doesn't move out of the area, it will hurt a lot of local business' but if they do, it will be the sole result of the machinists and their greed. Maybe I don't understand the entitlement mentality and maybe I never will, but you would think that they would be happy to have a great paying job, especially in this economy.
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BOOM. This guy gets it.
 
Jaydog said:
The machinists should have read up on the bakers that wouldn't negotiate with Hostess and now they have no place to work. I hope that Boeing doesn't move out of the area, it will hurt a lot of local business' but if they do, it will be the sole result of the machinists and their greed. Maybe I don't understand the entitlement mentality and maybe I never will, but you would think that they would be happy to have a great paying job, especially in this economy.
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Huge difference here. Boeing is going to make planes it's just a matter of where. The jobs will not disappear they may just move.
 

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