Six Shooters vs 5th stud

crapyota · Sep 22, 2010

i used to break knuckle studs every time out..
i bought TG magnum knuckle studs. replaced the top 8 studs.. have not had a problem in 3 years. havnt even had one come loose...

best upgrade i have done. now i break other stuff,not my steering.

Flat-Bed_3rd_Gen · Sep 22, 2010

crapyota said:
i used to break knuckle studs every time out..
i bought TG magnum knuckle studs. replaced the top 8 studs.. have not had a problem in 3 years. havnt even had one come loose...

best upgrade i have done. now i break other stuff,not my steering.

cool that was also one of my questions if i should just buy the top 8 and leave the others alone... thanks for all the info guys

CHOP SHOP · Sep 22, 2010

Flat-Bed_3rd_Gen said:
cool that was also one of my questions if i should just buy the top 8 and leave the others alone... thanks for all the info guys

its all in your driving style and how the rig is setup and used.

I have a truck here with a 5th stud on it and he has broken at least one magnum stud while running a fifth stud. He went to he toyota dealer and asked for a steering stud and they sold him a replacement for $4. The dealer had ARPs just like the ones we got from trailgear.

But we wheel more and harder in a month than 90 percent do in a year.

Oh yeah here it is, broken ARP. From a toy on 38x16 wide TSLs with a v6, exo, elocker front, yadda yadda.

Flat-Bed_3rd_Gen · Sep 22, 2010

CHOP SHOP said:
its all in your driving style and how the rig is setup and used.

I have a truck here with a 5th stud on it and he has broken at least one magnum stud while running a fifth stud. He went to he toyota dealer and asked for a steering stud and they sold him a replacement for $4. The dealer had ARPs just like the ones we got from trailgear.

But we wheel more and harder in a month than 90 percent do in a year.

Oh yeah here it is, broken ARP. From a toy on 38x16 wide TSLs with a v6, exo, elocker front, yadda yadda.

well right now i am open in the front and i know everything breaks eventually
and yeah everything has to do with how you drive/wheel, right now i am concerned for most durable vs cost and if i can get away for a while with the 5th stud and only 8arps then i will be happy.

which toy dealer did that guy go to?

WHITE TRASH1 · Sep 22, 2010

I knew the dealers started selling steering studs with the E torx heads on them but since when are they legitimate ARP's?

CHOP SHOP · Sep 22, 2010

Flat-Bed_3rd_Gen said:
well right now i am open in the front and i know everything breaks eventually
and yeah everything has to do with how you drive/wheel, right now i am concerned for most durable vs cost and if i can get away for a while with the 5th stud and only 8arps then i will be happy.

which toy dealer did that guy go to?

I believe he went to toyota of puyallup?

If you havent killed or worked the stockers loose yet, run them and a 5th stud.

If you have abused the stockers and tightened them several times or the truck was a beater before you got it then replace the top studs and do a 5th stud.

There is no need to upgrade the ones on the bottom cap in case you wondered.

Really the 5th stud vs 6 shooters is about skill and cost, not strength.

I think a properly installed 5ht stud is just as strong as a six shooter.

But it takes skill and tools and good parts before a 5th stud works at all.

If you have no skill or tools or confidence to get the job done right, then the shooter is pretty much a no brainer.

I quit recomending the 5th stud mod to my friends cuz they get a pair of bolts and show up and want me to do it for free. While its not tough, it gets old tho.

If you want to save a buck and have a brain and tools, go fifth stud.

If you have more loot than tools and skills, then go 6 shooter.

That simple.

If you have no tools and skills, and you have no loot, dont get a 5th stud to save a buck and then show up at my place tho. :redneck: :beer:

CHOP SHOP · Sep 22, 2010

WHITE TRASH said:
I knew the dealers started selling steering studs with the E torx heads on them but since when are they legitimate ARP's?

Im not going ASSUME anything, but side by side they have the same dimension, torx nipple on top, and exact coloring/coating/plating that the arps have.

I would however trust an assumption that they were the same as an arp over TrailGear saying/printing that the ones they sell are actual arps.

Trust my own judgement/assumption or trust trail gear? Your call.

Dealer was about $4 each too.

WHITE TRASH1 · Sep 22, 2010

I bought ARP's from front range and they didn't look anythign like what tg or the dealer sells...

http://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/nfo...n.jpg?osCsid=1cad4a546bdf49595d4b05132ba193a4

Flat-Bed_3rd_Gen · Sep 22, 2010

CHOP SHOP said:
I believe he went to toyota of puyallup?

If you havent killed or worked the stockers loose yet, run them and a 5th stud.

If you have abused the stockers and tightened them several times or the truck was a beater before you got it then replace the top studs and do a 5th stud.

There is no need to upgrade the ones on the bottom cap in case you wondered.

Really the 5th stud vs 6 shooters is about skill and cost, not strength.

I think a properly installed 5ht stud is just as strong as a six shooter.

But it takes skill and tools and good parts before a 5th stud works at all.

If you have no skill or tools or confidence to get the job done right, then the shooter is pretty much a no brainer.

I quit recomending the 5th stud mod to my friends cuz they get a pair of bolts and show up and want me to do it for free. While its not tough, it gets old tho.

If you want to save a buck and have a brain and tools, go fifth stud.

If you have more loot than tools and skills, then go 6 shooter.

That simple.

If you have no tools and skills, and you have no loot, dont get a 5th stud to save a buck and then show up at my place tho. :redneck: :beer:

yeah i have no welding skills or tools but my buddy does. i just cant really spend the money on the 6 shooters and if the 5th stud is just as good then i will go that route and get arps

trxguy · Sep 22, 2010

WHITE TRASH said:
I bought ARP's from front range and they didn't look anythign like what tg or the dealer sells...

http://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/nfo...n.jpg?osCsid=1cad4a546bdf49595d4b05132ba193a4

they are probably not true ARP has anyone (including myself, i have the magnum ARP from TG) seen the ARP stamp on the box or any parts we have bought, claiming to be ARP... my guess is no..... hell i had napa tell me that the knuckel studs they sell are grade 8 and just as strong as ARP, they said, "that the A in ARP was for the Grade 8" ......... i laughed .....then bought the magnums from TG

CHOPSHOP i am not arguing or saying they are not the same but don't judge a book by its cover..... looks dont equel tensil strength

trxguy · Sep 22, 2010

Flat-Bed_3rd_Gen said:
yeah i have no welding skills or tools but my buddy does. i just cant really spend the money on the 6 shooters and if the 5th stud is just as good then i will go that route and get arps

i never said buy a six shooter, i don't think anyone in here has said buy a six shooter.....

the welding crack was just a joke don't take it serious

Binder · Sep 22, 2010

Whoever said that there is no such thing as cast steel is smoking crack. Cast steel is just a steel that has been cast....The difference between cast iron and cast steel is that they are both iron alloys but cast iron has a greater carbon content which gives it a lower melting temperature and easier to cast. The "cast" is just the process not the material though "cast iron" does refer to a specific group of alloys with high carbon content......More carbon= more brittle as a rule so cast steel is less brittle and generally stronger for the things we use it for. Cast steel is a iron alloy with a very low carbon content. In other words it's just steel that has been cast.....Forging or machining process has nothing to do with any of this............
The high steer arm issue on your Toy is nearly the same issue of other high steer setups..44..60...The difference is on the Toy the surface area of the arm to knuckle contact is very small on a Toy. By design these all rely on friction for strength. The studs aren't supposed to see any sheer stress but when the nuts come loose the friction is gone and sheer is all that's left. The sheer strength of the studs isn't enough and will soon fail. Add enough studs though and they have much better sheer strength.....On the small surface Toy there isn't enough friction even with the studs to proper torque so it's doomed form the start if you stress it much over stock application........

TreeClimber · Sep 22, 2010

Binder,....

Did you just post this in the wrong thread??

trxguy · Sep 22, 2010

Binder said:
Whoever said that there is no such thing as cast steel is smoking crack. Cast steel is just a steel that has been cast....The difference between cast iron and cast steel is that they are both iron alloys but cast iron has a greater carbon content which gives it a lower melting temperature and easier to cast. The "cast" is just the process not the material though "cast iron" does refer to a specific group of alloys with high carbon content......More carbon= more brittle as a rule so cast steel is less brittle and generally stronger for the things we use it for. Cast steel is a iron alloy with a very low carbon content. In other words it's just steel that has been cast.....Forging or machining process has nothing to do with any of this............
The high steer arm issue on your Toy is nearly the same issue of other high steer setups..44..60...The difference is on the Toy the surface area of the arm to knuckle contact is very small on a Toy. By design these all rely on friction for strength. The studs aren't supposed to see any sheer stress but when the nuts come loose the friction is gone and sheer is all that's left. The sheer strength of the studs isn't enough and will soon fail. Add enough studs though and they have much better sheer strength.....On the small surface Toy there isn't enough friction even with the studs to proper torque so it's doomed form the start if you stress it much over stock application........

hey its not after 7 so we should take this serious :haha: :fawkdancesmiley:

Binder · Sep 22, 2010

TreeClimber said:
Binder,....

Did you just post this in the wrong thread??

I did post it in another thread and deleted right away if that's what you mean?

Binder · Sep 22, 2010

trxguy said:
hey its not after 7 so we should take this serious :haha: :fawkdancesmiley:

Wait until after 7:00 and I'll go out in the garage and make some cast steel.....Out on You tube soon.:haha:

TreeClimber · Sep 22, 2010

Binder said:
I did post it in another thread and deleted right away if that's what you mean?

Yeah.... I had quoted you what a "What??", then when I posted it, your original post was deleted. So I wasn't sure if I was seeing things when I saw it in this thread.

Flat-Bed_3rd_Gen · Sep 22, 2010

trxguy said:
i never said buy a six shooter, i don't think anyone in here has said buy a six shooter.....

the welding crack was just a joke don't take it serious

i originally posed the question of getting 5th studs or 6 shooters

I wasn't taking the welding comment serious I was just responding to Chop Shops post and explaining why I am going to go with a 5th stud