D60 Gears

Wildman1 · Sep 22, 2007

longfield said:
It looks like the rockwell hardness is to high. Some of them are real hard, thats why we heat treat them and bring the rockwell hardness down to take more shock load. We treat them for Randy's Ring & Pinion and a lot of other people.

Bobby,
You'll be getting my gear here soon to treat for me.

Thanks Rick

Wildman1 · Jan 30, 2008

Well the saga of my CRD60 continues. Wayne from www.AllJeep.com offered to setup the gears for me. He has worked with TeraFlex before and just moved here to Washington from Utah. So I finally got the time and funds to take the axle over to him. He is located in Spokane.

So here is what he has found so far.

Got this axle in my shop today and spent about an hour checking things out...

Pulled the diff cover and saw the busted teeth.

Looked at the teeth and saw the pattern on them wasn't what I would call good.

Checked the backlash and had a hard time seeing any with the masses of busted teeth, but I was able to finaly find a good spot and there was about .002" - it was very hard to hold the pinion still to check, so it might have been even less. This might explain the 'heat spot' I thought I saw in other pictures...

Put some compound on the gears and checked it, pinion is way deep. Drive side pattern is on the heel and way low in the root. Coast is on the toe.

Pulled the carrier, it had a pretty good load on it as I had to use a crow bar and 2x4, but was easier than I would have hoped - especially with an old styel ARB.

Pinion had under 5 inlb of preload on it, guage didn't move. Maybe even 0 and loose? but I couldn't feel it quite wiggle. The cage on the bearing looks spread and loose as well.

Put a depth gauge in it and verified the pinion is .007" too deep. Which in itself doesn't sound like much, but the pattern shows more - I think. ie I think it would take more than 7 thou of shims to put the pattern where I think it should be.

Then I put spacers in the carrier bearings (w/caps on) and wheel ends and stuck it - appears to be a good straight housing.

ARB is the old style and is pretty chewed up. Having a straight ring flange I think is going to be a challenge. Might have to look into a new case and repair this one? See the nice chunk missing out of the ARB flange and the cracked teeth?

Scraper is pretty chewed up from peices of gear getting caught between it and the gear/ARB.

Anyway, here's some pics... If you look at the pics close, you can see the wear pattern and where the gear isn't being used at all.

Coast side...

Drive side...

The old Precision Gear gears seemed to have about the same pattern on them....

Once again Ron at Alloy USA/Presicision Gear went above and beyond!! What a great warranty and customer service!!!! The first gears were Precisions and not only did Ron warranty them sight unseen, but he also sent out a new master install kit with the replacement gears!!! Talk about above and beyond!!!

I don't have time to do much more with it right now, so stay tuned for more progress pics. I have 3 other axles that I've got to finish up first, but I hope to have some time to get it finished up within the next 2 weeks for it to be picked up the first weekend of Feb.

Then I got this email from him Monday.

Hi Rick,
I honestly haven't started on it yet. I found the bearings and they should
be on their way. Would you mind if we shoot for next weekend instead? I
don't think I'll get the new bearings in time to have it done this weekend.

With as much metal has gone through that axle, I want to replace all of the
bearings/seals. But what I need to do first, is pull the old gears off that
ARB and check it out to make sure it's not bent. I'll do that this
afternoon, so we can get a better plan going. I did look at replacement
parts and your looking at around $3-400 (I looked last week and don't recall
the exact number now) just to repair that case if it is damaged. But like I
say, I'll get the kid asleep and go down and tear it apart to see if it's
salvageable or not.

Thank you for the opportunity to serve you. If I can be of assistance,
please let me know!

Wayne

So I relplied and waited and got this from him later on Monday.

Hi Rick,
I checked it out and yes, it's bent. Not only is the flange that holds the
ring gear bent (causing the gear to wobble side to side), but the actual
locker is bent (causing the gear to move back to front).

I just sent ARB an email to find out the availability on the parts and cost.
My book show $320 for the housing, flange cap and o rings +tax and shipping.

Judging by the serial number, the locker was built in April of 2003 - not
sure if you were curious how old this axle was?

Thank you for the opportunity to serve you. If I can be of assistance,
please let me know!

Wayne

And then this GREAT news yesterday!!!

Guess what.... ARB is back ordered on the case til mid Feb.

So he is going to install the end cap and see if that fixes the problem or?? If not then have to wait for the case to come in.

TreeClimber · Jan 30, 2008

Now is the time to switch to a Detroit.

And that is a very articulately written correspondence. It would give me confidence.

Not Jobless · Jan 30, 2008

So throw a Detroit in it and wheel

So who did the A+ work on installing the gears and such that were scrutinized so nicely?

Wildman1 · Jan 30, 2008

Jobless said:
So throw a Detroit in it and wheel

So who did the A+ work on installing the gears and such that were scrutinized so nicely?

Brad,
This is not a poop slinging thread. Wayne is pointing out what he found and that is it. I am not going to bring up names or anything else. All I care about at this point is getting that axle FIXED and put back under the Jeep so I can play.

Why throw a detroit in it? The parts to fix the ARB are still cheaper. So nope I am sticking with the ARB.

Wildman1 · Jan 30, 2008

TreeClimber said:
Now is the time to switch to a Detroit.

And that is a very articulately written correspondence. It would give me confidence.

Yes it does.

Wayne came HIGHLY recommended to me and when he offered to fix the axle I jumped at the chance.

As a side note; The new gears that are going into the axle have been sent out to Bobby and been treated. So we will see if the THIRD time is a charm.

Not Jobless · Jan 30, 2008

Wildman said:
Brad,
This is not a poop slinging thread. Wayne is pointing out what he found and that is it. I am not going to bring up names or anything else. All I care about at this point is getting that axle FIXED and put back under the Jeep so I can play.

Why throw a detroit in it? The parts to fix the ARB are still cheaper. So nope I am sticking with the ARB.

It has nothing to do with poop slinging, if there is a vendor out there that does questionable work than you would be doing the wheelilng community a favor by letting them know up front.

Not Jobless · Jan 30, 2008

TreeClimber said:
Now is the time to switch to a Detroit.

I think I've heard that somewhere before :eeek:

Wildman1 · Feb 1, 2008

Well got an email from Wayne today that didn't have any good news in it.

I just checked it with the new flange cap and it's quite a bit better, but not right. What did I say before, .007" runout? Now it's roughly .002". I also had to grind on the case to get the new flange cap to sit flat.

So it looks like I am now waiting until the end of Feb to get my axle fixed. So I just need to get some of the other stuff done so I will not be trying to catch up.

darius · Feb 1, 2008

Wildman said:
Well got an email from Wayne today that didn't have any good news in it.

So it looks like I am not waiting until the end of Feb to get my axle fixed. So I just need to get some of the other stuff done so I will not be trying to catch up.

This is the time where you do one of two things..... Find a hook up inside ARB, or two (more desirable IMO) Ditch the Damn ARB, If there is one wheeler related problem that is most common it is ARB (In most cases people use them at a higher level than ARB rates them for which i feel is pretty lame), but you are well within their said limitations. How often does a Detroit fail? quit being an "ARB fag" no pun intended, and get with the reliable option.

Cascade_Crawler · Feb 1, 2008

2thou runout? run it

Tech Tim · Feb 1, 2008

Wildman said:
Well got an email from Wayne today that didn't have any good news in it.

I just checked it with the new flange cap and it's quite a bit better, but not right. What did I say before, .007" runout? Now it's roughly .002". I also had to grind on the case to get the new flange cap to sit flat.

Click to expand...

So it looks like I am not waiting until the end of Feb to get my axle fixed. So I just need to get some of the other stuff done so I will not be trying to catch up.

Rick, .002" is fine on runout and you'll be hard pressed to find any new diff, ARB or other brand, that has .000" or even .001" runout. The ring gear will also be a little out and have a high and low spot. Find the high spot on one and the low spot on the other and fit them together and you'll even it out.

darius said:
This is the time where you do one of two things..... Find a hook up inside ARB, or two (more desirable IMO) Ditch the Damn ARB, If there is one wheeler related problem that is most common it is ARB (In most cases people use them at a higher level than ARB rates them for which i feel is pretty lame), but you are well within their said limitations.

Utter BS..... ARBs do not have a higher failure rate than any other diff. Sure you can't set them up wrong and sure you can't pack them full of mud and water, but proper installation and basic maintenance will keep everything in your axle happier.

I guess their high failure rate is what makes them so popular with the pro rock crawlers.

darius said:
How often does a Detroit fail?

About every other time an axle shaft or hub gear fails. :flipoff:

darius said:
quit being an "ARB fag" no pun intended, and get with the reliable option.

Why so he can be a Detroit Fag? :looser: Or maybe a Lockrite fag or how about an Aussie locker or OX fag? No matter what you run there will always be some jackass who'll call you a fag. :stirpot:

TreeClimber · Feb 1, 2008

Tech Tim said:
Rick, .002" is fine on runout and you'll be hard pressed to find any new diff, ARB or other brand, that has .000" or even .001" runout. The ring gear will also be a little out and have a high and low spot. Find the high spot on one and the low spot on the other and fit them together and you'll even it out.

Utter BS..... ARBs do not have a higher failure rate than any other diff. Sure you can't set them up wrong and sure you can't pack them full of mud and water, but proper installation and basic maintenance will keep everything in your axle happier.

I guess their high failure rate is what makes them so popular with the pro rock crawlers.

About every other time an axle shaft or hub gear fails. :flipoff:

Why so he can be a Detroit Fag? :looser: Or maybe a Lockrite fag or how about an Aussie locker or OX fag? No matter what you run there will always be some jackass who'll call you a fag. :stirpot:

Welcome back Tim! You present a very nice point / counterpoint to the ARB -v- Detroit debate.

(I still happen to prefer Detroits, but, ARB does have a good product also)

JPFREAK · Feb 1, 2008

darius said:
This is the time where you do one of two things..... Find a hook up inside ARB, or two (more desirable IMO) Ditch the Damn ARB, If there is one wheeler related problem that is most common it is ARB (In most cases people use them at a higher level than ARB rates them for which i feel is pretty lame), but you are well within their said limitations. How often does a Detroit fail? quit being an "ARB fag" no pun intended, and get with the reliable option.

None of this dribble will convince me to give up my air lockers.:flipoff:

TreeClimber · Feb 1, 2008

JPFREAK said:
None of this dribble will convince me to give up my air lockers.:flipoff:

That's what you said about a stick.:haha: :eeek:

JPFREAK · Feb 1, 2008

TreeClimber said:
That's what you said about a stick.:haha: :eeek:

Sticks don't slow me down:silly7:

Besides, with the way my lines are set up now I'd have just as much chance tearing off a breakline as the arb line. (yes I've done both)

Wildman1 · Feb 1, 2008

darius said:
This is the time where you do one of two things..... Find a hook up inside ARB, or two (more desirable IMO) Ditch the Damn ARB, If there is one wheeler related problem that is most common it is ARB (In most cases people use them at a higher level than ARB rates them for which i feel is pretty lame), but you are well within their said limitations. How often does a Detroit fail? quit being an "ARB fag" no pun intended, and get with the reliable option.

So if the DETROIT is SO great then explain how a broken axle with a Detroit can take out the DETROIT and sometimes the gears?? Every locker has it's good and bad. Most people snivel about an auto locker and how it doesn't unlock when you need it too. Or how it makes your slide all over the place when driving it on ice. Big deal, I drove a Jeep with a Detroit for 4 years before I went over to the PSSSSST side. And I have no complaints with the ARB. It locks when it should and unlocks when it should. My biggest problem with them is that I forget to turn them on or off. And my 5 yr old makes sure I don't forget. So fag me this or fag me that I'll stick with my ARB.

Tech Tim said:
Rick, .002" is fine on runout and you'll be hard pressed to find any new diff, ARB or other brand, that has .000" or even .001" runout. The ring gear will also be a little out and have a high and low spot. Find the high spot on one and the low spot on the other and fit them together and you'll even it out.

About every other time an axle shaft or hub gear fails. :flipoff:

Why so he can be a Detroit Fag? :looser: Or maybe a Lockrite fag or how about an Aussie locker or OX fag? No matter what you run there will always be some jackass who'll call you a fag. :stirpot:

Tim,
I'll talk to Wayne about it today. I am more worried about the fact that he had to grind on the case to get the end cap to fit. And my hookup at ARB doesn't work there anymore!!:fawkdancesmiley:

JPFREAK said:
None of this dribble will convince me to give up my air lockers.:flipoff:

Yep you hear it all the time about how the grass is always greener!!:looser:

Tech Tim · Feb 1, 2008

Wildman said:
Tim,
I'll talk to Wayne about it today. I am more worried about the fact that he had to grind on the case to get the end cap to fit.

This scares me a bit too, but with the case being damaged, some grinding to fit a new part to a damaged part would need to be done.

Just have a case on order and when they get them in, pick one up to have installed when you get a chance.

And my hookup at ARB doesn't work there anymore!!:fawkdancesmiley:

That's true, but I still have my hookups there and you didn't call me to tell me you were having a problem or what you needed. :flipoff:

Wildman1 · Feb 1, 2008

Tech Tim said:
This scares me a bit too, but with the case being damaged, some grinding to fit a new part to a damaged part would need to be done.

Just have a case on order and when they get them in, pick one up to have installed when you get a chance.:

Tim, This is why I think I'll just wait and have it put back together RIGHT. I have had enough issues with this damn axle that I really do not want to have to be working on it again.