Your spelling Choppy!!!:fawkdancesmiley: :haha:
Elbe Meeting outcome
- Thread starter TreeClimber
- Start date
Your spelling Choppy!!!:fawkdancesmiley: :haha:
CHOP SHOP
Well-Known Member
is a snow park permit the same as a NWFP $5 a day or$35 a year?
and is it covered if you have a NWFP?
I paid to camp at the dunes for years before figuring out that it was covered by my NWFP if it was placed on the dash (sand camping, not campgrounds).
as a wheeler we pay multiple fees not one. SAD.:booo:
426rider
Well-Known Member
anyone that parks where a forest pass is required needs to have one. Hikers, mt bikers, horse people... they are req'd many places. However they are not req'd at elbe or any other DNR land.
CHOP SHOP
Well-Known Member
Proceeds from permit sales are used exclusively to maintain and improve non-motorized Sno-Park facilities. They pay for snow removal, sanitation facilities, trail grooming, trail signs, mapping, parking lot construction, education, enforcement and Sno-Park program administration.
this was taken from the park site.
so snowmobilers pay an extra fee to have thier trails groomed and parking areas plowed. after they bought orv tabs for the sleds already. thats good.
but where do these other users pay??:cheer:
My take on is this.
They were just there to listen to our ideas, but make no desition (this way they can say we were heard). They will go back to there office and play politics. There frame of mind will be "what will we do make it look like we care about what the 4x4ers said".
They were all over the funnel idea. They will probably put a funnel at the begining of the Busy and have it only as wide as they want it (82"). That way they can state that there is no width restriction, but if you can't fit through the funnel with out going over or around (wich i know many will do/try), you do not belong on the Busy.
As for a new trail, that will never happen with out closing down an existing trail and replanting it with trees. There concern is to grow trees to sell for money, Period. If they are to move a trail or add to a trail then they will have to remove trees or cause damage to trees. Either way they dont get any money for the trees. That was one of his first points he focused on.
I believe work partys and self policing are the key to keeping Elbe Hills the way we all want it to be "A CHALLENGE".
If we see someone doing damage to the structures or trails, we need to report them. No if and or buts about it. Report them........
There needs to be regular work parties. Get the word out amungst the 4x4ers to have all that we can to come and help and not rely on others to do it for us. I myself will make sure i am on a list for people that can be contacted to help with work parties. We also need to utilise every possible resource to make sure all are aware of the work parties that are taking place.
Sorry so long, thats my .02
They were just there to listen to our ideas, but make no desition (this way they can say we were heard). They will go back to there office and play politics. There frame of mind will be "what will we do make it look like we care about what the 4x4ers said".
They were all over the funnel idea. They will probably put a funnel at the begining of the Busy and have it only as wide as they want it (82"). That way they can state that there is no width restriction, but if you can't fit through the funnel with out going over or around (wich i know many will do/try), you do not belong on the Busy.
As for a new trail, that will never happen with out closing down an existing trail and replanting it with trees. There concern is to grow trees to sell for money, Period. If they are to move a trail or add to a trail then they will have to remove trees or cause damage to trees. Either way they dont get any money for the trees. That was one of his first points he focused on.
I believe work partys and self policing are the key to keeping Elbe Hills the way we all want it to be "A CHALLENGE".
If we see someone doing damage to the structures or trails, we need to report them. No if and or buts about it. Report them........
There needs to be regular work parties. Get the word out amungst the 4x4ers to have all that we can to come and help and not rely on others to do it for us. I myself will make sure i am on a list for people that can be contacted to help with work parties. We also need to utilise every possible resource to make sure all are aware of the work parties that are taking place.
Sorry so long, thats my .02
mud4funtoy
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 2, 2006
- Messages
- 356
I don't have much time because of work but wanted to say a couple of things. I will say more on Monday.
I think the meeting had good and bad points
Good.
We showed DNR that there are a lot of people that care about that trail and that we can organize if needed.
We were able to show that the majority of users are differant today.
Dnr Stated that they would not impose the wheel restrictions, But danced a bit when saying it.
They did see that there were a lot of people that did not want the restriction .
We made them a bit nervous and surprised them a great deal.
Bad
I felt they hurried us along. I would too if i had a that many people in front of me. I feel they danced around some of the issues. I should of done a better job and stood up and asked DNR to slow down a little. You all took your time to be there. They need to take there time to be with us.
I also feel that if we continue to be involved we will have more opportunities.
There is a rumor on this board that the restrictions were not real. That is not true they were very real. I would have not gone though so much trouble trouble fighting with so many people and doing all I could if they were not real
and still are if we don't monitor the way the gate keepers are built.
I was proud to see over 205 people in the room that came to make a difference. Accomplishments were made but the fight is not over, Dnr is not a organization that can be trusted. We need to fill the room again Because decisions are being made at the next meeting and we all need to be a part of it. If we fill the room once and then go back to just a couple of people DNR will go back to there old ways.
If we keep the room full they will be forced to face the fact that we are not going away and that we will not stand for the continued path that they have taken when it comes to our sport. we don't want another Tahua.
I'm going to push for another meeting location where they can have there break out groups, They faught me on having it at the church for along time.
I just want to say thank you to all the people that took time to come and be a part of what is happening. DNR NEVER SEEN THAT MANY PEOPLE IN A ROOM FIGHTING FOR A TRAIL. You can believe you were a part of making a impact in DNR's Minds. THANK YOU.
I think the meeting had good and bad points
Good.
We showed DNR that there are a lot of people that care about that trail and that we can organize if needed.
We were able to show that the majority of users are differant today.
Dnr Stated that they would not impose the wheel restrictions, But danced a bit when saying it.
They did see that there were a lot of people that did not want the restriction .
We made them a bit nervous and surprised them a great deal.
Bad
I felt they hurried us along. I would too if i had a that many people in front of me. I feel they danced around some of the issues. I should of done a better job and stood up and asked DNR to slow down a little. You all took your time to be there. They need to take there time to be with us.
I also feel that if we continue to be involved we will have more opportunities.
There is a rumor on this board that the restrictions were not real. That is not true they were very real. I would have not gone though so much trouble trouble fighting with so many people and doing all I could if they were not real
and still are if we don't monitor the way the gate keepers are built.
I was proud to see over 205 people in the room that came to make a difference. Accomplishments were made but the fight is not over, Dnr is not a organization that can be trusted. We need to fill the room again Because decisions are being made at the next meeting and we all need to be a part of it. If we fill the room once and then go back to just a couple of people DNR will go back to there old ways.
If we keep the room full they will be forced to face the fact that we are not going away and that we will not stand for the continued path that they have taken when it comes to our sport. we don't want another Tahua.
I'm going to push for another meeting location where they can have there break out groups, They faught me on having it at the church for along time.
I just want to say thank you to all the people that took time to come and be a part of what is happening. DNR NEVER SEEN THAT MANY PEOPLE IN A ROOM FIGHTING FOR A TRAIL. You can believe you were a part of making a impact in DNR's Minds. THANK YOU.
mud4funtoy
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 2, 2006
- Messages
- 356
Your right we need to come back again and fill the room again. We care about our trail. And we are not going to stop caring about our trail.
mud4funtoy
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 2, 2006
- Messages
- 356
I agree with you totally. The decisions will be made and discussed at the next meetings. The focus group was developed to get community and user involvement and input. They danced at the first one but if we keep it up eventually they will half to start working with us and us with them. i GAURANTEE THAT IF WE FILL THE ROOM AGAIN THAT WILL HAVE A EVEN BIGGER IMPACT.
mud4funtoy
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 2, 2006
- Messages
- 356
hey THOUGHT YOU ALL WOULD LIKE TO KNOW. The PNW has a big part in what happens in our state especially when it comes to trails. Tomorrow they are having a State Gauls meeting in Fife ant the King Oscar motel. If you want to see some behind the scenes stuff and learn a bunch. its 8 am till 4 pm. There will be lots of Dnr and state forest people, along with other officials. along with a lot of people that take care of the trails. I know they would like to see some new faces in the room. and it would be good for all of us to get some new faces in the room.
mud4funtoy
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 2, 2006
- Messages
- 356
OK I am off now I will talk a lot more on Monday. You all have a good weekend and Again thanks for the great turn out.
I think we should put together a list of suggestions we would like to see happen in Elbe. Then I would like to make sure DNR gets our list. At that time I would ask that DNR Get a meeting place so that those items and there concerns with those ideas can be discussed. I will be telling them that there will be a large number of people returning so maybe a better meeting place would be good and if they don't want to get the meeting place then I will. If we continue to get the support of the 4x4 community then we will have more opportunities.
HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND
I think we should put together a list of suggestions we would like to see happen in Elbe. Then I would like to make sure DNR gets our list. At that time I would ask that DNR Get a meeting place so that those items and there concerns with those ideas can be discussed. I will be telling them that there will be a large number of people returning so maybe a better meeting place would be good and if they don't want to get the meeting place then I will. If we continue to get the support of the 4x4 community then we will have more opportunities.
HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND
I don't think anyone here is pushing for restrictions at Elbe, just clarification on what is expected(from both sides). I personally think that an 82" restriction is too narrow for Elbe but should 96" be allowed? How about 102"? I don't have the answer. If someone builds a rig with Rockwells and 50"x36" Terra tires should we build the trail to make sure he fits? We've got to be, at least, a little realistic in our expectations.
The Elbe area seems to have an unusual amount of full size rigs. What is really silly to me is the 'proposed' wheelbase restriction. 109" WTF! Certainly longer wheelbase rigs can be harder to maneuver but I've seen 113" WB rigs easily out turn my old CJ 5 because they had twin sticks.
The DNR was very clear in their determination to keep their saleable asset, trees. They have the power and they can force changes. For us to have any say in what happens at Elbe, all sides must be willing to make compromises. If we can't, or are unwilling to make compromises, the decisions will be made for us by the DNR and we won't like answers. Since I've been wheeling, a lot of areas have been closed, areas that many of the younger guys have never heard of. In every case I can remember, these areas were closed without notice. The DNR is giving us a chance to have a voice and seems willing to work with us. We need to respect this rare opportunity.
One of the guys from the DNR said that his main goal was to protect the trees and prevent people from being hurt on the trail. Has anyone ever been seriously hurt on the trails? I talked to Nancy after the meeting and asked her if the trees around the Busywild trail were ever going to be logged like some of the other trails, she said "no, because of the sensitive wetlands in the area". I asked her if she was going to fill in the mud holes on the Busywild trail, she said "yes, logs will go on the bottom with rock on top". I think the DNR (and some older people) want to make the Busywild like most the other trails: easy and unchallenging for most vehicles. The DNR and many users of Elbe ORV Park want to do as little maintenence and spend as little money as possible on this trail system. The only way Elbe will continue to be a good place to go wheelin is if people in the 4x4 community volunteer their time and recources to make inprovements.
The DNR wants to make all the trails too easy. Thats my opinion.
The DNR wants to make all the trails too easy. Thats my opinion.
I agree. Nearly all of Tillamook can be done 2 wheel drive. I'd hate to see that happen at Elbe.
Steve I like your Idea maybe one of the admins could start a list and we could all banter back ond forth and put together a list of Suggestions as to how to attack these issues and the next meeting We could present
them at the next meeting.
Also some folks were interested in paying to wheel then maybe we could have the new rep open a bank account and track the Donations that everyone makes and that money could go to Elbe repairs.
Totalled
That Ford Guy
You missed it. He said that all the fees from ORV license go to ORV expenses. He put the gas tax in there, because everyone pays an ORV fee in the gas tax, weather they venture off road or not... I guess that was his justification to the horse users not really having another fee and getting 1/3 of the "off road" funds from the gas tax.
:eeek:
I came away from the meeting feeling better about the DNR's attitude toward ORV recreation and their level of willingness to listen and work with us.
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Yea rich the picture and the comments bother me But I take it with a grain of salt because of the source. I have worked hard to get where I am and yes when I speak for the PNW its because its my job to and I take it seriously.
crash2
-Oh no I picked a side-
I want to throw a very big thank you to those who went to be a voice for those of us who could not be there..
Oh and jim--thank you :awesomework:
Oh and jim--thank you :awesomework:
