Evans Creek improvements...

[dirk]

Sorry for the hijack Qman, but I think this is a good conversation that has applications to Evan's...

But the Busy shouldnt be altered with ''solid bypasses or rocked'' areas its a most difficult trail... N should be kept that way... she understands that the Busy wild is suposed to be the most difficult trail at elbe.

Are you saying that since the Busy is most difficult, that we should not maintain it? If we are to maintain the trail, what does that look like in your opinion?

I never said no good was done by WOW on the Busy,, I simply stated a fact and comented on the statement that Horus had spoke one... But thank you for ur input... always very filled with intell.

Still interested to hear your thoughts on what maintenance should look like on the Busywild. What do we do when a hole gets blown out & several more lines are created as people look for ways around?

1. Block off all bypasses & force people to drive or winch through the 1 hole?
2. Rock in a bypass & keep 1 nasty hole?
3. Do nothing & let the users do what they want?

I think option 1 combined with a gatekeeper at the beginning of the trail could be a good solution...it would set the tone & keep the unprepared rigs out.

Thoughts?

:beer:

 

[JAWS]

Sorry for the hijack Qman, but I think this is a good conversation that has applications to Evan's...







Still interested to hear your thoughts on what maintenance should look like on the Busywild. What do we do when a hole gets blown out & several more lines are created as people look for ways around?

1. Block off all bypasses & force people to drive or winch through the 1 hole?
2. Rock in a bypass & keep 1 nasty hole?
3. Do nothing & let the users do what they want?

I think option 1 combined with a gatekeeper at the beginning of the trail could be a good solution...it would set the tone & keep the unprepared rigs out.

Thoughts?

:beer:

Im just glad that you dont run Elbe very often N dont go to many of the work partys up their N get really involed. I would hate to see what the trails would look like then...

 

[CHOP SHOP]

Ill take door number 3, Dirk! :011:

 

[Jacob]

If the small wheeling community on this site cannot compromise enough to figure out what they want as a group, how in the hell do we as wheelers expect the .gov organizations to assist us in getting what we want?

As long as we keep arguing amongst ourselves in open forums 'they' are going to keep doing what they want with the public's land.

 

[Mark m.]

Yes it does. That is why I like overusing it. To think of all the killing and spending that has been done fighting that word is overwhelming. That said, I am terrorized by the thought of what the FS is doing to Evans. I only wish they were taking them back to their original spec.

Was only just a few months ago that one of my fellow coworkers brought in an old photo album full of old wheelin photos. His main haunt was always Rimrock but there were numerous photos of Evans Creek wheelin in the 70's and 80's. My favorite ones were 520. The switchbacks used to be crazy. They would sidehill across and then hit it to swing around and up the corner the other way, all in deep mud. Apparently 520 used to be the **** until someone blew it on a switchback and rolled to the bottom. Then they started rocking the corners in and the result is what we see today. Walk in the park.

I have made numerous friends wheelin. Of those friends I particularly like hearing the stories of those who's age is more than twice my own. I work with one of these dudes. Guys who were wheelin Evans before it was officially an ORV park. I don't recall them ever saying they ran all the trails in three hours and never left the gravel.

Ha Ha I spent most of the night broke down on one of those switchbacks about 15 years ago. I was with with pokey
The trail seemed damn hard then but my rig was on 33s and mostly stock then also.
Oh ya after that night I don't think my wife ever went wheelin with me again:haha:

 

[Corey Y]

Ill take door number 3, Dirk! :011:

That worked well for Reiter. :stirpot:

 

[wkndtoy]

Time.....

Ha Ha I spent most of the night broke down on one of those switchbacks about 15 years ago. I was with with pokey
The trail seemed damn hard then but my rig was on 33s and mostly stock then also.
Oh ya after that night I don't think my wife ever went wheelin with me again:haha:

I'm thinking it was more than 15 years ago.. in the mid 90's it was pretty easy..

 

[POR]

Aren't 44's the new 35's :redneck:

 

[crash2]

I'm thinking it was more than 15 years ago.. in the mid 90's it was pretty easy..

I remember back in like 95' on 33's it wasn't too difficult.

 

[dirk]

Im just glad that you dont run Elbe very often N dont go to many of the work partys up their N get really involed. I would hate to see what the trails would look like then...

Against my better judgement, I was actually trying to have a serious discussion with you. I merely shared my opinion...in my perfect (selfish) world I would want a single badass trail running through the woods, where rigs either drove the obstacles or winched. Bypasses are not required if the rig is set up with the appropriate equipment...this includes a winch if they can't make it. A nasty gatekeeper would keep most of the stock rigs out so they didn't screw it up for the rest of us & make a bypass. The trail system could have a variety of trails with obstacles maintained to suit the difficulty level on each trail.

So, now let's hear what you would do.

If the small wheeling community on this site cannot compromise enough to figure out what they want as a group, how in the hell do we as wheelers expect the .gov organizations to assist us in getting what we want?

As long as we keep arguing amongst ourselves in open forums 'they' are going to keep doing what they want with the public's land.

I agree :awesomework:

 

[dirk]

Ill take door number 3, Dirk! :011:

As fun as that sounds, how do you plan to get buy in from the DNR/FS?

 

[JAWS]

Against my better judgement, I was actually trying to have a serious discussion with you. I merely shared my opinion...in my perfect (selfish) world I would want a single badass trail running through the woods, where rigs either drove the obstacles or winched. Bypasses are not required if the rig is set up with the appropriate equipment...this includes a winch if they can't make it. A nasty gatekeeper would keep most of the stock rigs out so they didn't screw it up for the rest of us & make a bypass. The trail system could have a variety of trails with obstacles maintained to suit the difficulty level on each trail.

So, now let's hear what you would do.



I agree :awesomework:

Maybe you should go hit the trails at Elbe... Weve been doing it the way it should be done on nearly every trail out their... and are getting good feed back....These are things one needs to see for them selfs and not read on the internet..If you want to see certian things happen.. Then get ur club involved and make things happen.... Other wise i dont feel ur opion matters at all...
See you on the trails
:awesomework:

 

[pokey]

Ha Ha I spent most of the night broke down on one of those switchbacks about 15 years ago. I was with with pokey
The trail seemed damn hard then but my rig was on 33s and mostly stock then also.
Oh ya after that night I don't think my wife ever went wheelin with me again:haha:

That was a long night on the 102. Broken J arm that we tried welding back together. I think it held for about 100 feet. Didnt we wind up tying off your steering and dragging it out backwards ? I need to go dig through some old photo albums and see if I have pics from that trip. yea your wife wasnt a real happy camper that night :booo:

 

[Binder]

Maybe you should go hit the trails at Elbe... Weve been doing it the way it should be done on nearly every trail out their... and are getting good feed back....These are things one needs to see for them selfs and not read on the internet..If you want to see certian things happen.. Then get ur club involved and make things happen.... Other wise i dont feel ur opion matters at all...
See you on the trails
:awesomework:

Nice speelin! Is Jaws and Nowires the same person?:flipoff:

 

[Binder]

Many of us built our rigs to fit the trail and when we come back with a real drivetrain on 36s or better to see that some work party "stockered" the whole thing with gravel,well, it hurts.

Dude you're preaching to the choir!:;
A 4x4 group destroying 4x4 trails is not the answer to anything.....

 

[dirk]

Maybe you should go hit the trails at Elbe... Weve been doing it the way it should be done on nearly every trail out their... and are getting good feed back....

I know what WTF has done with the log crawl...nice job with that...seriously, but you still haven't answered my question regarding how to properly maintain the Busywild when users create multiple lines on one section of trail. Which of the 3 options would you choose...or do you have another option that I didn't list?

These are things one needs to see for them selfs and not read on the internet..If you want to see certian things happen.. Then get ur club involved and make things happen.... Other wise i dont feel ur opion matters at all...

I don't belong to a club.

See you on the trails at Elbe :awesomework:

Edited for accuracy...I hear you don't wheel anywhere else.

 

[Brian H]

I know what WTF has done with the log crawl...nice job with that...seriously, but you still haven't answered my question regarding how to properly maintain the Busywild when users create multiple lines on one section of trail. Which of the 3 options would you choose...or do you have another option that I didn't list?



I don't belong to a club.



Edited for accuracy...I hear you don't wheel anywhere else.

:haha:

 

[crash2]

who cares who's penis is bigger than who's and who has wheeled where.

Bottom line we need to be involved in our sport to protect it. If we trust government agency's to do whats in our best interest we will/be/have pissed so get involved......

 

[grant1]

It would level the playing field. Nothing is more disgusting to someone wheelin a modern rig than to see the difficult and fun trail they grew up with covered with gravel and hardened its obstacles broken down or removed. Many of us built our rigs to fit the trail and when we come back with a real drivetrain on 36s or better to see that some work party "stockered" the whole thing with gravel,well, it hurts. We have precious few "Most Difficult" trails left in this state yet we stand by and do nothing about it. I believe it is because we are told within our user group that we must submit to their (FS) will. Here we are allowing, even making excuses for and justifying the FS's actions up there. Go back and look at how many people defended the boat ramp conversion on the entrance to the lower 311. " We had to do or they said they'd shut it down boo hoo." Let them shut it down. Let them try.

My point is that paving a trail like the 311 or 197 of it's obstacles and mud sections is dramatically taking away from well more than half of the ORV user groups. The fact that some user groups even go as far as to enable this kind of destruction is pathetic. If ratcheting down the difficulty of all our remaining decent trails is the norm then it needs to be across the board. Cutting a tree out of a tight corner on LR is no different and No Less Stupid than turning the beginning of the 311 trail into a boat ramp, or making 197 doable in a mini excavator.

Tell you what. Next year the FS will likely ask us for volunteer help to pave and destroy another major section of trail. When they do I'll go up there that day and take plenty of photos. We'll see who helps them turn a natural beautiful organic dirt based fun trail into a flat and featureless gravel road through the woods, then we'll go from there.

I'm all for fixing what is supposed to be an easy trail. Making what is supposed to be a hard trail (311, 197, Busywild, etc) into a stupid easy trail is treason as far as I'm concerned. It should not be tolerated.

Go to FS meeting meet Bob and set some time up to talk to him.
Dont judge there desisions until you have heard both sides.

 

[Jacob]

Honestly, if you read the public comments submitted in the .pdf file I posted a link to, the compromises were not that far off in my eyes. I think they took all sides into account with the issues covered by the project at hand.

We are not only talking about 4x4 offroading when we talk about these ORV parks either, there are ATVers that get a say in these decisions as well. I for one rode my ATV at Evans creek back in the 03-04 timeframe and it was too damn rough for my liking with my son along. My solution was to just go to another place and ride because I enjoyed taking my 4 runner up there. Other users don't see it this way. Should ATVs get their own trails? I say yes, but who pays for it? What is the definition of ORV? Does an ATV fall into that definition? See where I am going with this?

There are alot of user groups that have to be taken into account when these decisions are made and those that voice the loudest opinions would stand the better chance. To those of you that are so pissed about what is happening up there, are any of your comments in the public comments submitted? If not, then it is partially your fault.

Just my 2 cents and how I see things. I am just glad we have a place to go. Alot of states don't have what we have in this state. I am sure after the project is done the spotlight will be taken off of Evans Creek and it will be allowed to creep back into somewhat of the conditions it was in before.