evans creek issues

[chance]

wish i could help but the states out of money, beside we are a scout unit, all we got is big guns nothing that we can use.

 

[CHOP SHOP]

Its a neat idea but its a little ways away from the camping area and will have limited parking for trailers.

Did the PNW have any part in getting this new play area opened up?

How did they help support this project?

 

[CHOP SHOP]

wish i could help but the states out of money, beside we are a scout unit, all we got is big guns nothing that we can use.

Your in a position to ask your boss, "hey where do I find engineers in the guard?" Ask around to some others. Anything helps.

Your checks are paid for by the feds, not the state.

The military ALWAYS has money. Especially if its a waste, then they have even more.

 

[Money Mark]

Looks like there is hope for FS land...Rimrock will have a new rock crawl next year:

http://sportsyakima.com/2010/05/tieton-rock-crawl-on-track-to-open-next-year/​

:beer:

A step in the right direction.:cheer:

As far as Evans goes.....what now? What are the people to do?

Will you lay down (yes, keeping it open) like Pokey or will you scream bloody hell (useless banter) like Brian H. ??? Somewhere in between?

 

[japerry]

ORV parks should be built and maintained to satisfy those who are out there volunteering at the meetings and work parties. :awesomework:
Everyone else gets the pleasure of going there for free don't really have the right to complain. So if Evans is being built/maintained by a less 'hardcore' group, then thats what you'll get.
Why do you think I want more Reiter built folk volunteering at Walker? :;

 

[pokey]

Did the PNW have any part in getting this new play area opened up?

How did they help support this project?

Yes. Its been in the works since 2008. Arlene(wa. state dir.) has been involved as well as the region 4 director and local clubs from the area.

http://www.pnw4wda.org/forums/showthread.php?t=82

 

[wheeler4x4samota]

so what im getting out of all the discussion is this please tell me if i am wrong:

We maintain Evans just to keep it open and keep placing our opinons to improve the trail system hoping maybe just maybe they might take those opinions in concideration.

As for better harder trails we should focus on DNR land



maybe we can find a chunk of DNR land that isnt used yet and make our own park with trails for all types of rigs including designated quad trails and designated motorcycle trails and get the clubs involved with all types to be involved not just 4x4 guys and gals and since its all would be new we could build it in such a way that everyone is happy including the dnr

is that even a possability or way to far fetched i mean trail systems have to start somewhere maybe we should ask the "old timers" how they started a trail system. I know a few people that helped create elbe lets ask them how to do it

if we make it so the users have to obtain a pass (like a forest pass) we can use the money for maintenece or improvments and with that pass when it is signed the user waves all responsability from that park due to ORV accident

just a thought

 

[chance]

Well the engineers are down south like past Olympia somewhere, but there currently overseas and for the money issue I really wish I could do something but the guard is funded by the state when were home and were over sea

 

[dirk]

Did the PNW have any part in getting this new play area opened up?

I contacted Barry Collins back in January & asked for details on the project...he sent me this:

 

[grant1]

We were asked to spruce up the 311 , it was. Good or bad.

With the improvement plan coming into effect, three seasonal FS staff have been hired. They will be working on the trails. This has its pros and cons.
Managing what happens this season will need to be addressed.

I want to know a game plan, whats going to stay and what might change.

This was talked about briefly, I will ask if we can get more info at the next FS meeting.

This a good thread, with good ideas and input!

 

[Money Mark]

I contacted Barry Collins back in January & asked for details on the project...he sent me this:

So let me get this straight? Jaydogs comment about getting the FS to work with ORV users in "...improving the trail systems..." is not true. After reading this letter, apparently so.

What else could we be wrong about???:scratchhead:

 

[Money Mark]

For those that might be lost in my references or didn't throughly read this thread to understand, these are the series of statements my questions/statements stemmed from:

Yep, because you will have so much influence over what they do :haha::haha:

They (the FS) are entirely run by Greenies, they do not want us in the woods, we are an evil that has a right to be there and they will put up with us as long as they have to, you all can go ahead and jump through their hoops and say whatever it is you want, but the truth is, that they have no concern about making it challenging, they want it as safe as possible to lower the liability on the FS, and they want minimal runoff, if you want difficult trails then work with the DNR.

Theres a certain amount of truth to that :awesomework: The DNR has a lot more leeway as to what they can do on the land they manage. The FS has 10 times the regulations to follow then the DNR does.

That's what a lot of people don't realize, the FS is used to maintaining parks, and beautiful landscapes, the DNR is used to logging, two extremely different views of nature, if people want to get involved in improving the trail systems then they need to be pro-active with the DNR ORV parks, Evans Creek is FS and will always be run as such, and while a lot of us may disagree with the powers that be, there is no way any of us will change their goals for the park. Put your efforts towards a goal that is achievable :awesomework:

 

[dirk]

As far as Evans goes.....what now? What are the people to do?

I would ask them to read post #12 of this thread & start becoming part of the solution.

Will you lay down (yes, keeping it open) like Pokey or will you scream bloody hell (useless banter) like Brian H. ??? Somewhere in between?

I don't think Pokey is "laying down"...he is merely representing his members. We need to give thanks for what the PNW4WDA has accomplished over the years...many of their members have had a hand in building the trails we enjoy today. I look forward to a long & healthy partnership.

Having said that, I know there are a lot of wheelers out there that do not belong to an organized club or association...a whole bunch of wheelers looking for hardcore trails to test their rigs. The Wheelers of Washington Association was created to give these folks a voice. We are actively developing relationships with the DNR & FS officials and pushing for more extreme obstacles/trails.

To answer your question directly...I am somewhere in between.

:beer:

 

[pokey]

so what im getting out of all the discussion is this please tell me if i am wrong:

We maintain Evans just to keep it open and keep placing our opinons to improve the trail system hoping maybe just maybe they might take those opinions in concideration

as for better harder trails we should focus on DNR land



maybe we can find a chunk of DNR land that isnt used yet and make our own park with trails for all types of rigs including designated quad trails and designated motorcycle trails and get the clubs involved with all types to be involved not just 4x4 guys and gals and since its all would be new we could build it in such a way that everyone is happy including the dnr

is that even a possability or way to far fetched i mean trail systems have to start somewhere maybe we should ask the "old timers" how they started a trail system. I know a few people that helped create elbe lets ask them how to do it

if we make it so the users have to obtain a pass (like a forest pass) we can use the money for maintenece or improvments and with that pass when it is signed the user waves all responsability from that park due to ORV accident

just a thought

Here's the deal James, Some of you have overbuilt your rigs for the trails we have now. Expecting the trails to change because of this fact is far fetched (at least on FS land) The trail systems were built years ago when the laws were a lot more lax (for lack of a better term) Anytime a "use" is changed things get reviewed and things have to be brought up to today's standards. Building new trails or seriously revamping old ones means that drainage and erosion issues as well as a ton of other things have to be brought up to today's standards. basically impossible given all of the challenges. Evans creek for example is in what's called a LSR (late sucsesional reserve) meaning that its a secondary forest that must be preserved. To make any major changes or changes in use there must be a finding by the FS of a neutral or beneficial impact on the area. Thus meaning wildlife or biologicals cannot be harmed or put at risk. To come to these findings the FS is required by law to do a EA (environmental assessment) these take 2-5 years to complete and cost 50-100,000 dollars to do. (lots of studies) With today's funding issues that's just not likely to happen.
Building a new park is always a option. both the DNR and FS (maybe) have land that is suitable for such a venture. It would have to be away from people have no fishbearing streams on it or tributaries that feed fish bearing streams. No wildlife habitat. and no endangered birds that do or may want to live there. To start you need to find a friend in one of the agency's that agrees with what you want. This person needs to be able to commit themselves (as well as yourself) to a long term project. Funding can be applied for thru grants (very competitive) and of course funding would have to be in hand to even begin the study process. Once the studies are done then planning can begin (more funding grants) Once planning is done then it would go to public hearings and possible lawsuits. If it survives this then funding could be applied for to start the actual building process. This is how we built the areas we have now. Plan on a minimum of 5 years with a reality of 5-10 years to see it thru.

There obviously has been some success at Elbe in changing some of the trails. The DNR does not have near the rules and laws to follow that the FS does. so to me it would seem more logical to work with the DNR to "create" what your seeking. I would look at Tahuya for opportunities since there is a large number of acres already being used for motorized use. (hundreds of miles of MC trails. To me it just seems like a logical place to start. Who knows it might just be possible to do there.


Ok you guys can rip this post apart for a while Im going out to the shop for a bit :hi:

 

[pokey]

So let me get this straight? Jaydogs comment about getting the FS to work with ORV users in "...improving the trail systems..." is not true. After reading this letter, apparently so.

What else could we be wrong about???:scratchhead:

well your wrong about me laying down. It just proves you know absolutly nothing about me at all :kissmyass:

 

[wheeler4x4samota]

Thanks Jim for that info now if we can get enough of us that would like to try to make a park that is up to date to save the traffic from the older ones (like evans) even if its tahouya if they are open to updating the trail system then lets try to get the ball rolling if it already hasnt started

im thinking about rejoining WOW to get back in the loop and dedicate some time consistantly to get the trail system caugt up with the times or build a new trail system

i will at least start doing some research and see what i can find

if anyone has any input (positive please) let me know or post it

nothing is going to get done sitting here bitching about everything on a web page (im guilty of it too)

 

[Money Mark]

The Wheelers of Washington Association was created to give these folks a voice.

I know you are and I support WOW and it's members 100% in mind and soul.:worship:

well your wrong about me laying down. It just proves you know absolutely nothing about me at all :kissmyass:

You're in a high level position and have been there for awhile......you're used to these types of comments and people like me.:;

I know that about you. I also know Evans is your favorite child. You raised him, groomed him and set him off into the world. He's his own man now and you have not accepted it. He's lives in a different world you lived in and while your experience and wisdom, he appreciates. His life path is different from what you chose for him. Time to let your boy become a man Jim.:beer:

 

[Brian H]

You're in a high level position and have been there for awhile......you're used to these types of comments and people like me.:;

I know that about you. I also know Evans is your favorite child. You raised him, groomed him and set him off into the world. He's his own man now and you have not accepted it. He's lives in a different world you lived in and while your experience and wisdom, he appreciates. His life path is different from what you chose for him. Time to let your boy become a man Jim.:beer:

:awesomework:

 

[Binder]

maybe we can find a chunk of DNR land that isnt used yet and make our own park with trails for all types of rigs including designated quad trails and designated motorcycle trails and get the clubs involved with all types to be involved not just 4x4 guys and gals and since its all would be new we could build it in such a way that everyone is happy including the dnr

is that even a possability or way to far fetched i mean trail systems have to start somewhere maybe we should ask the "old timers" how they started a trail system. I know a few people that helped create elbe lets ask them how to do it

if we make it so the users have to obtain a pass (like a forest pass) we can use the money for maintenece or improvments and with that pass when it is signed the user waves all responsability from that park due to ORV accident

just a thought

Yes this is doable, talk to the DNR. I just got home from a Reiter focus group meeting where we're doing just that....You can lease DNR land too.....You can charge up to $25 per person per day with limited liability but if you charge more than that you could find yourself liable for "whatever" and signing waivers probably won't get you off the hook.
It's a HUGE
task but if you think you're up to it.:awesomework:

 

[wheeler4x4samota]

Yes this is doable, talk to the DNR. I just got home from a Reiter focus group meeting where we're doing just that....You can lease DNR land too.....You can charge up to $25 per person per day with limited liability but if you charge more than that you could find yourself liable for "whatever" and signing waivers probably won't get you off the hook.
It's a HUGE
task but if you think you're up to it.:awesomework:

well hopefully its not just me but a group of people